Engine swap, new old?
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,486
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From: Iowa
Phil is right, they dont know and dont care.
Im telling you it can be done, as i have done it. Its sitting in my drive way right now. I drive it every day and tow a 7500lb enclosed race trailer every weekend with it.
But ask them if you want.
Im telling you it can be done, as i have done it. Its sitting in my drive way right now. I drive it every day and tow a 7500lb enclosed race trailer every weekend with it.
But ask them if you want.
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 462
Likes: 1
From: MN
Thanks you guys, I'll be looking for a local used 03' 5.4L with low miles or a quality rebuilt elsewhere. A few years ago you could buy all the new OE 5.0L Ford long and short blocks you wanted. Also, complete new stock Ford engines were available through Ford and Summit Racing. I still have the catalogs. I wish I could just order a new 03' 5.4L from Ford, too bad darn-it!
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
Thanks you guys, I'll be looking for a local used 03' 5.4L with low miles or a quality rebuilt elsewhere. A few years ago you could buy all the new OE 5.0L Ford long and short blocks you wanted. Also, complete new stock Ford engines were available through Ford and Summit Racing. I still have the catalogs. I wish I could just order a new 03' 5.4L from Ford, too bad darn-it!
Ford Techs-even the "Master" techs are clueless as to anything other than what the Ford system says will fit as a replacement. This is the same for salvage yards, parts stores, mechanics, etc. If you mention anything othen that the same year model, then they'll shut you down with an adamant "It won't fit".
The funny thing is-if you were to show up at the dealership with a newer model engine in your truck, there are maybe 1 in 1000 "Master" techs that would even know the difference.
JL
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 462
Likes: 1
From: MN
Ford still manufactures NEW 5.4L 2V's. They still use them in the Econolines, and in industrial applications like generators, pumps, etc.
Ford Techs-even the "Master" techs are clueless as to anything other than what the Ford system says will fit as a replacement. This is the same for salvage yards, parts stores, mechanics, etc. If you mention anything othen that the same year model, then they'll shut you down with an adamant "It won't fit".
The funny thing is-if you were to show up at the dealership with a newer model engine in your truck, there are maybe 1 in 1000 "Master" techs that would even know the difference.
JL
Ford Techs-even the "Master" techs are clueless as to anything other than what the Ford system says will fit as a replacement. This is the same for salvage yards, parts stores, mechanics, etc. If you mention anything othen that the same year model, then they'll shut you down with an adamant "It won't fit".
The funny thing is-if you were to show up at the dealership with a newer model engine in your truck, there are maybe 1 in 1000 "Master" techs that would even know the difference.
JL
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
Wow, even the 2011's? Thanks for the info and commentary..lol. I wonder how much they get for them $ and if it's a complete motor or just a small or long block? Probably out of my price range tough? I'd like to price one out just for the info, I bet they probably would want a VIN number though?
Direct from the Ford website:
The 5.4L EFI Triton® V8 engine's proven SOHC architecture produces 255 hp and 350 lb.-ft. of torque across a wide power band and features a silent-design cam drive for smooth, quiet operation, plus a fail-safe cooling system and a 90,000-mile scheduled tune-up interval .* And the 5.4L V8 is a flex fuel engine, meaning it's capable of running on E85, unleaded gasoline or a combination of the two.
<table border="1" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>2009
Engine
Ford Van E250</td><td>5.4 LOW MILES</td><td align="right">mileage=29,444</td><td align="center">A</td><td>stock #110016</td><td align="center">$1750</td><td>Elite Auto USA-MN(Long-Lake) E-mail 1-800-886-2298</td></tr></tbody></table>
Don't tell them a VIN, don't tell them what you're putting it in-just buy it,and swap it. The only other thing you might need is an intake manifold-the E-series uses a slightly different intake manifold to clear the "doghouse",etc..
JL
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 462
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From: MN
Thanks for the info, I'll check into it asap. ? Would I then need an 09' flash or will m y 98 cpu work as is and still attain the optimal fuel to air ratio it does with the OE 98' F150 5.4L engine?
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,486
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From: Iowa
Your 98 flash will run it the same as it runs the 03 motor. It will run great. But it would run much better with a custom tune.
Nothing changed on the 2v 5.4l after 99, so all the engines will make the same power.
Nothing changed on the 2v 5.4l after 99, so all the engines will make the same power.
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Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
This is really VERY simple.
Buy engine
Place on engine stand.
Pull old engine
Place on another engine stand.
Swap over ALL of the '98 sensors,and engine wiring harness.
Swap oil pan and pickup tube(maybe-not 100% on this one, but it's not a big deal.)
Install new engine.
Start engine.
Enjoy.
Seriously-you're making this out to be WAAAAAY more difficult than it is. If it were a simple pull and drop in replacement, even the dealership would do it.
If you can pull an engine, you can do this swap.
JL
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,157
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From: Stanton DE
You need to go back and read your thread.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
JL
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 462
Likes: 1
From: MN
I called on the 09' engine. There Hollander book says the Econoline 5.4L 2v engines are the same from 02' -10'. Elite auto wants another $150 core charge on a used engine, they are sending me some pictures. It's still cheaper than a reman by quite a bit.
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 462
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From: MN
Air/fuel is determined by the O2 sensors,and MAF's input to the PCM. The PCM could care less what shape,size,color,etc the engine is. Airflow is measured though the MAF and the appropriate amount of fuel is injected to attain the target air/fuel ratio. The O2's are there to fine tune this mixture. The Ford dealer CANNOT and WILL NOT flash anything on your PCM except for OE programming for a '98 or any '98 updates. You MUST use an aftermarket tuner to make the minor changes needed for optimal operation. It'll run fine on the '98 PCM-it just won't be perfect. There are spark table differences,and a few other little items that need changed. As for the E85 aspect-there is absolutely NO internal or mechanical difference between a non-E85 and an E85 compatible engine.
This is really VERY simple.
Buy engine
Place on engine stand.
Pull old engine
Place on another engine stand.
Swap over ALL of the '98 sensors,and engine wiring harness.
Swap oil pan and pickup tube(maybe-not 100% on this one, but it's not a big deal.)
Install new engine.
Start engine.
Enjoy.
Seriously-you're making this out to be WAAAAAY more difficult than it is. If it were a simple pull and drop in replacement, even the dealership would do it.
If you can pull an engine, you can do this swap.
JL
This is really VERY simple.
Buy engine
Place on engine stand.
Pull old engine
Place on another engine stand.
Swap over ALL of the '98 sensors,and engine wiring harness.
Swap oil pan and pickup tube(maybe-not 100% on this one, but it's not a big deal.)
Install new engine.
Start engine.
Enjoy.
Seriously-you're making this out to be WAAAAAY more difficult than it is. If it were a simple pull and drop in replacement, even the dealership would do it.
If you can pull an engine, you can do this swap.
JL
PHP no longer programs the Edge Evol or CS or CTS. I called SCT and they said I would need the cpu out of the 03' donor truck to use instead of the 98's cpu because the 98's cpu doesn't have enough storage to hold the 03' OE tune so as to fully take advantage of the Newer PI's engine power vs. my 98's Non-PI. I'll be calling PHP to see what they say about the whole thing and how I can get an 03' tune with custom tune for towing and milage and mods to gain the full benefits of the 98' Non-PI to 03' PI 5.4L swap without tooooo much BS. I don't want to be changing pins on the cpu harness plug-in to make this work, that's just to much screwing around to make this work right.
Q: do I need to swap cpu's to?, or can I get all this stuff programed into the 98's cpu to an 03' level plus custom tune for JBA headers, K&N drop-in, and dual e-fan mods. Overall, I should easily see 50 extra HP plus all the power I've been loosing from my rung out 98' 5.4L
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 462
Likes: 1
From: MN
I just talked to PHP and they said to KEEP my 98' harness and all engine sensors 98', not switch to 03". I guess that's what your saying right Johnny. Keeping my 98' harness and all sensors 98', not installing a 03' harness and sensors.
PHP said they could convert my Edge Evol to a gryphon and install a special custom tune for $60.00 to get the equivalent tune of an 03' OE Ford tune plus write in a custom tune for the shorty headers, but I would have to deal with the Edge cable failure problem and it wound not be reliable.
I just want to see the 03' OE tune performance plus the additional power written in to take full advantage of the additional mods. I may call "5 Star" and see what they say.
It's the program compatibility part that puzzles me, between SCT tech line, PHP tech line, and what your saying. I'm very experienced with engines etc, just not the computer program end of it. I just want all the PI hp of an 03' using 87 oct. pump gas in my 98' plus the added tune performance you guys have been telling me I need for peak performance/efficiency in this swap. Again, Overall, I should easily see 50 extra HP from the PI engine with JBA shortys, Dual E-fans installed, and drop-in K&N plus all the power I've been loosing from my rung out 98' 5.4L? I would enjoy hearing from you though.
Thanks.
PHP said they could convert my Edge Evol to a gryphon and install a special custom tune for $60.00 to get the equivalent tune of an 03' OE Ford tune plus write in a custom tune for the shorty headers, but I would have to deal with the Edge cable failure problem and it wound not be reliable.
I just want to see the 03' OE tune performance plus the additional power written in to take full advantage of the additional mods. I may call "5 Star" and see what they say.
It's the program compatibility part that puzzles me, between SCT tech line, PHP tech line, and what your saying. I'm very experienced with engines etc, just not the computer program end of it. I just want all the PI hp of an 03' using 87 oct. pump gas in my 98' plus the added tune performance you guys have been telling me I need for peak performance/efficiency in this swap. Again, Overall, I should easily see 50 extra HP from the PI engine with JBA shortys, Dual E-fans installed, and drop-in K&N plus all the power I've been loosing from my rung out 98' 5.4L? I would enjoy hearing from you though.
Thanks.