DEF usage over winter
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Tuned
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 297
Likes: 5
From: Northwestern Ontario
DEF usage over winter
I have not put any DEF in over the winter. I was worried about freezing and problems'
I topped it up in October, and have put about 5000k on it. My son borrowed it to take it into the city (I know, gonna drive the crap out of it).
It has been a cold winter, mostly -25F. It has just been getting close to melting the past week or so. I thought I would add a gallon to it just to be safe.
It only took one quart.
Seems it doesn't want to use it while it is frozen. I thought it has some kinda built in heater....and the exhaust has had a strong different smell over the winter.
My CEL light was on for about 2 months, and went off about a month ago. It has kicked into "reduced power" mode quite a few times, but after re-starting, has always ran ok.
Oh well, warm weather is coming in about a month. Suppose to be above freezing next week.
--
Gordon
I topped it up in October, and have put about 5000k on it. My son borrowed it to take it into the city (I know, gonna drive the crap out of it).
It has been a cold winter, mostly -25F. It has just been getting close to melting the past week or so. I thought I would add a gallon to it just to be safe.
It only took one quart.
Seems it doesn't want to use it while it is frozen. I thought it has some kinda built in heater....and the exhaust has had a strong different smell over the winter.
My CEL light was on for about 2 months, and went off about a month ago. It has kicked into "reduced power" mode quite a few times, but after re-starting, has always ran ok.
Oh well, warm weather is coming in about a month. Suppose to be above freezing next week.
--
Gordon
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,521
Likes: 11
From: Greenwood, SC
Extreme cold has been the 1 sore spot for this DEF system, as posted here a few months back.
I would be more concerned about it than you appear to be, congrats on being level headed. In my opinion, Ford should get specific for you folks in those conditions and provide you with information/confirmation/recognition for having problems with the system which can ultimately shut the engine down.
I would be more concerned about it than you appear to be, congrats on being level headed. In my opinion, Ford should get specific for you folks in those conditions and provide you with information/confirmation/recognition for having problems with the system which can ultimately shut the engine down.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,839
Likes: 2
The colder the temperature, the less DEF you will use.
First, if the DEF has frozen. the computer will not call for a DEF event until the DEF heater has thawed the fluid.
Second, DEF events are always tied to higher EGT's and heavier loading conditions. Extreme cold temperatures will keep the operating temps below the DEF event thresholds except under the most heavy duty cycles. Highway driving under low load conditions will likely result in no DEF events. BTDT
My DEF usage has dropped by over 50% this winter. The coldest temp I have seen is -10F. It has been a top 10 winter for cold temps here in Michigan but I have not experienced any problems with my truck. No CEL's and low DEF consumption...I am smiling
Regards
First, if the DEF has frozen. the computer will not call for a DEF event until the DEF heater has thawed the fluid.
Second, DEF events are always tied to higher EGT's and heavier loading conditions. Extreme cold temperatures will keep the operating temps below the DEF event thresholds except under the most heavy duty cycles. Highway driving under low load conditions will likely result in no DEF events. BTDT
My DEF usage has dropped by over 50% this winter. The coldest temp I have seen is -10F. It has been a top 10 winter for cold temps here in Michigan but I have not experienced any problems with my truck. No CEL's and low DEF consumption...I am smiling
Regards
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 738
From: Isanti, MN
I have not noticed any decreased DPF usage this winter. In the ~2,500 miles I've driven since the first of the year, I've used 1/2 tank of DEF. Only 900 miles of that were towing, and the rest of it was driving unloaded in highway driving conditions. I do not spend much time in stop-and-go driving, and it's been colder up here in NW Wisconsin than it has been in most places in the US.
As a matter of fact, I haven't towed anything in 3 months, and I just went below 1/2 tank of DEF in the last couple days. I believe it doesn't use as much in the winter, but I don't think it's that significant.
And fixdent, I wouldn't be surprised if the SCR system was disabled when your truck went into limp home mode with your CEL on. Like any other system I bet it shuts itself down when it senses a problem to avoid potential damage. Just a guess, but it would explain your minimal DEF usage.
As a matter of fact, I haven't towed anything in 3 months, and I just went below 1/2 tank of DEF in the last couple days. I believe it doesn't use as much in the winter, but I don't think it's that significant.
And fixdent, I wouldn't be surprised if the SCR system was disabled when your truck went into limp home mode with your CEL on. Like any other system I bet it shuts itself down when it senses a problem to avoid potential damage. Just a guess, but it would explain your minimal DEF usage.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 754
Likes: 0
Don't recall the specifics that people have had problems, but, isn't there more of a concern of freezing from over-filling than not having enough? That is mentioned in the manual. Not sure how the heater works or is positioned.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,521
Likes: 11
From: Greenwood, SC
While it's true that low temps both from the engine and also ambient will result in minimal NOx production, the CEL and limp mode should not be happening.
It should just be a simple matter, no dosage required in the aftertreatment system just means that it won't use it. This condition should not result in any CEL's or limp mode strategies.
Also, the fluid will freeze in the tank and in the lines (if there is any, not supposed to be at shutdown) and will thaw when the truck is running. This is simple too and should not be problematic.
If I were Ford, I would have a cold weather package that includes a front radiator cover, block heater that is also tied to the DEF tank. Both should be heated when the block heater is plugged in.
If this truck is used in sub-zero conditions for days at a time, it really should have a unique set-up. Here in the lower 48, freezing temps for weeks at a time are common but rarely do we see below zero for more than 48 hours at a time.
It should just be a simple matter, no dosage required in the aftertreatment system just means that it won't use it. This condition should not result in any CEL's or limp mode strategies.
Also, the fluid will freeze in the tank and in the lines (if there is any, not supposed to be at shutdown) and will thaw when the truck is running. This is simple too and should not be problematic.
If I were Ford, I would have a cold weather package that includes a front radiator cover, block heater that is also tied to the DEF tank. Both should be heated when the block heater is plugged in.
If this truck is used in sub-zero conditions for days at a time, it really should have a unique set-up. Here in the lower 48, freezing temps for weeks at a time are common but rarely do we see below zero for more than 48 hours at a time.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 738
From: Isanti, MN
While it's true that low temps both from the engine and also ambient will result in minimal NOx production, the CEL and limp mode should not be happening.
It should just be a simple matter, no dosage required in the aftertreatment system just means that it won't use it. This condition should not result in any CEL's or limp mode strategies.
It should just be a simple matter, no dosage required in the aftertreatment system just means that it won't use it. This condition should not result in any CEL's or limp mode strategies.
I don't think you understood my post above. It certainly should NOT happen, and obviously with a CEL on something isn't working right. And I don't think it's because it senses no NOX.
These trucks are designed to operate in any weather, and cold weather operation was part of that. I think the CEL may have been the cause of the DEF system being shut off, not the result.
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Tuned
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 297
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From: Northwestern Ontario
My CEL light was on for about 2 months, and went off about a month ago. It has kicked into "reduced power" mode quite a few times, but after re-starting, has always ran ok.
I think this is a computer/sensor/cold weather problem that will be fixed.
When it goes into "Reduced power" mode, I have only had to pull over, shut it off, and start it back up again, but alway ran good after that. I don't anticipate any problems mechanically happening.
I'm figuring it is only a computer/sensor thing happening.
Otherwise, I more than happy with my truck
--
Gordon
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