CLICKING LIFTER? BROKEN STUD!
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,177
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From: Near Los Angeles
CLICKING LIFTER? BROKEN STUD!
For quite a while my lifters have been ticking at first start up of the day. But lately I noticed a ticking while hot during the day. So I finally got in there to adjust the valves.
On #5 cylinder I could not unlock the allen from the poly nut, even after I loosened the poly. (Crane gold roller rockers). After I got the nut off, and the allen, I noticed there was a piece of a stud inside the nut!
I was surprised how easily I could drill into it. My faith in machine shops is completely destroyed, not from this, but from many past experiences. I've never heard of shearing off the end with the rocker still bolted on by a half inch! I don't even think that is possible. Could the piece have been there under the allen without me noticing on these used rockers?
BTW: I tried to use the book system of adjusting the valves, where you tighten until you can't spin the p.rod any more. I usually tighten until I feel resistance. From there I went 1/4 turn, and enough more to cinch the allen. Even that was too much. I shut down the engine after seconds. It sounds like it's running on 4 cylinders. I'll go back to my system of tightening to resistance, then 1/4 turn more, period. Valves don't hang open that way.
On #5 cylinder I could not unlock the allen from the poly nut, even after I loosened the poly. (Crane gold roller rockers). After I got the nut off, and the allen, I noticed there was a piece of a stud inside the nut!
I was surprised how easily I could drill into it. My faith in machine shops is completely destroyed, not from this, but from many past experiences. I've never heard of shearing off the end with the rocker still bolted on by a half inch! I don't even think that is possible. Could the piece have been there under the allen without me noticing on these used rockers?
BTW: I tried to use the book system of adjusting the valves, where you tighten until you can't spin the p.rod any more. I usually tighten until I feel resistance. From there I went 1/4 turn, and enough more to cinch the allen. Even that was too much. I shut down the engine after seconds. It sounds like it's running on 4 cylinders. I'll go back to my system of tightening to resistance, then 1/4 turn more, period. Valves don't hang open that way.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Earth
Once the lifter's at zero lash (or ~.02" preload with new lifters) the nuts shouldn't move any more, just torque down the allen locks.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Near Los Angeles
I was taught to get zero lash, which is when you feel the p.rod get resistance as you roll it, then 1/4 turn.
So before the nut is all the way turned 1/4, I spin the allen until it bottoms, then cinch the nut the rest of its quarter turn.
If that is incorrect, I'd love to hear how it's done properly.
So before the nut is all the way turned 1/4, I spin the allen until it bottoms, then cinch the nut the rest of its quarter turn.
If that is incorrect, I'd love to hear how it's done properly.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,177
Likes: 377
From: Near Los Angeles
Good, I thought I screwed up. I still have enough stud to go through the rocker and get 1/2" of nut, but it kind of worries me.
Maybe I'll pull it this weekend and swap it out. I guess I'll drain the rad. a bit so I don't get a coolant geyser.
Maybe I'll pull it this weekend and swap it out. I guess I'll drain the rad. a bit so I don't get a coolant geyser.
FTE Legend
Joined: May 2008
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From: In my own world
I was taught to get zero lash, which is when you feel the p.rod get resistance as you roll it, then 1/4 turn.
So before the nut is all the way turned 1/4, I spin the allen until it bottoms, then cinch the nut the rest of its quarter turn.
If that is incorrect, I'd love to hear how it's done properly.
So before the nut is all the way turned 1/4, I spin the allen until it bottoms, then cinch the nut the rest of its quarter turn.
If that is incorrect, I'd love to hear how it's done properly.
it is unusual for a stud to break like that, it's probably a casting flaw in the metal. I would change them all, they were probably manufactured in the same batch. don't run long with the broken one, you could shoot the r-arm through the valve cover when it blowes off from high rev's
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,177
Likes: 377
From: Near Los Angeles
that is the way I do it
it is unusual for a stud to break like that, it's probably a casting flaw in the metal. I would change them all, they were probably manufactured in the same batch. don't run long with the broken one, you could shoot the r-arm through the valve cover when it blowes off from high rev's
it is unusual for a stud to break like that, it's probably a casting flaw in the metal. I would change them all, they were probably manufactured in the same batch. don't run long with the broken one, you could shoot the r-arm through the valve cover when it blowes off from high rev's
Today I found another broken one!! So, I have a set of ARP studs coming. I'm thinking of reverting back to oem rockers. I think it may help with mpg.
I just can't believe a shop would use crap studs like that, after I paid them $1,000 for the head work.
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FTE Legend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 56,542
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From: In my own world
can't always tell they're crap. only time brings on the problems, and sometimes it's a long time.
"Dusty, you're right so often it makes me think you took the Home Depot course in Auto Mechanics",
or just a really old fart that's broke a lot of stuff.
fixed it for ya
"Dusty, you're right so often it makes me think you took the Home Depot course in Auto Mechanics",
or just a really old fart that's broke a lot of stuff.
fixed it for ya
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,177
Likes: 377
From: Near Los Angeles
Dusty--
I have another question for you: To get tdc I put the t.mark on dampener at tdc on the dial, at about 10 oclock where the index is. Then I check that #1 is at top. From there I just turn the crank and watch the rotor until it is at the same position for each cylinder, and I adjust that set of valves.
But in the book ... It says to use the t. marks on the front cover, at about 1 o'clock in crank's rotation, to put the crank mark there, then to put a mark every 120 degrees, turn each mark to the index, and set the valves in firing order.
How can you have two tdc positions unless there are two marks on the dampener?
I have another question for you: To get tdc I put the t.mark on dampener at tdc on the dial, at about 10 oclock where the index is. Then I check that #1 is at top. From there I just turn the crank and watch the rotor until it is at the same position for each cylinder, and I adjust that set of valves.
But in the book ... It says to use the t. marks on the front cover, at about 1 o'clock in crank's rotation, to put the crank mark there, then to put a mark every 120 degrees, turn each mark to the index, and set the valves in firing order.
How can you have two tdc positions unless there are two marks on the dampener?
FTE Legend
Joined: May 2008
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From: In my own world
efi timing covers have marks on both sides of the timing cover. I find tdc with my thumb on #1 plug hole. have someone bump the key until it blows your thumb off the hole. put a plastic straw in the hole, and turn the damper back and forth until the straw reaches it's highest level. mark the damper. mark the dissy. make sure both valves are closed on # 1. adjust your valves. turn damper, and watch #2 valves open and close. confirm with dissy. adjust valves. continue to #3, all the way to #6. go back to tdc #1, and check the valves, sometimes you have to adjust 2 times all the way through. I don't know why. just happens like that.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,177
Likes: 377
From: Near Los Angeles
Dang it! I did it again. It's dangerous to use the hand held starter switch and the breaker bar on the dampener at the same time. I always forget to remove the b. bar before hitting the switch. Talk about getting a shock.
Now I have to retorque my dampener nut again. I got lucky.
Thanks, Dusty.
Now I have to retorque my dampener nut again. I got lucky.
Thanks, Dusty.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,177
Likes: 377
From: Near Los Angeles
Hey guys--
I need some help. I just finished removing the old studs, and installing the new ones. (I elected to go with the $5. ARP ones over the $1.30 Taiwanese ones.) I adjusted the valves as always, and now I'm getting a diesel sound right at the lifters.
I heard it prior to the r&r too. It sounds like a kid imitating a machine gun, but muffled. Of course I tried to put in some ... what is it called? Marvel Mystery Oil, about 1/2 quart, hoping for a miracle. It sounds like a #4 or#5 lifter clattering.
Would I hurt the existing cam (5k miles on it) by installing new lifters? Do I need to use a performance lifter? Before I spend more $, is there a method to determine if it is the lifter(s)? I usually hold a hose up there and listen.
I need some help. I just finished removing the old studs, and installing the new ones. (I elected to go with the $5. ARP ones over the $1.30 Taiwanese ones.) I adjusted the valves as always, and now I'm getting a diesel sound right at the lifters.
I heard it prior to the r&r too. It sounds like a kid imitating a machine gun, but muffled. Of course I tried to put in some ... what is it called? Marvel Mystery Oil, about 1/2 quart, hoping for a miracle. It sounds like a #4 or#5 lifter clattering.
Would I hurt the existing cam (5k miles on it) by installing new lifters? Do I need to use a performance lifter? Before I spend more $, is there a method to determine if it is the lifter(s)? I usually hold a hose up there and listen.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
When I was looking for lifters from mine, I was told my many many sources that there are really only two or three producers of lifters around, and despite who's name on them, they're pretty much all the same.
Schucks are the same as Comp are the same as Isky are the same as Autozone, etc. I had a shop, Schucks, and a Comp representative tell me that, so I wouldn't worry too much about where you get lifters from, if you get them.
You might want to try an automotive stethoscope. Of course, there's the expensive ones, which would be sweet, but the little $8 job has a metal rod that you press directly on the engine. The metal rod transfers the sound to the earbuds. It can help locate a sound a bit easier on the inside of the engine.
Hoses still work best for sounds on the outside, like an exhaust leak, or vacuum hiss.
Hope its something easy. And when I was asking about putting new lifters in, there were quite a few here saying it was just fine. ((Of course, glob them up with break in lube. ))
Schucks are the same as Comp are the same as Isky are the same as Autozone, etc. I had a shop, Schucks, and a Comp representative tell me that, so I wouldn't worry too much about where you get lifters from, if you get them.
You might want to try an automotive stethoscope. Of course, there's the expensive ones, which would be sweet, but the little $8 job has a metal rod that you press directly on the engine. The metal rod transfers the sound to the earbuds. It can help locate a sound a bit easier on the inside of the engine.
Hoses still work best for sounds on the outside, like an exhaust leak, or vacuum hiss.
Hope its something easy. And when I was asking about putting new lifters in, there were quite a few here saying it was just fine. ((Of course, glob them up with break in lube. ))