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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 03:21 PM
  #16  
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5.9 is what brought me back in the Ford fold. Before that I had 6.9 IDI, 7.3 PSD, then the 5.9 and now the 6.0 (and 5.4).

The 5.9 made good power down low, but it always sucked at interstate speed. It was that way from day one too.
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 03:43 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by tex25025
5.9 is what brought me back in the Ford fold. Before that I had 6.9 IDI, 7.3 PSD, then the 5.9 and now the 6.0 (and 5.4).

The 5.9 made good power down low, but it always sucked at interstate speed. It was that way from day one too.
My brother in law just sold his 2004 6.0 psd and bought his second 07 Dodge Cummins with the 5.9. He went all the way to Arizona to buy it since it's hard to find these trucks in TX in good shape. His experience with the Cummins 5.9 vs the 6.0 is completely unlike your experience.

Maybe you had a bad 5.9!
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 03:46 PM
  #18  
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To the OP, I would take a serious look at the Ford 6.7. These trucks seem to be excellent performers including towing and they make excellent fuel mileage. I would venture to say based on some respectable 6.7 owners these engines make as good or better than my 6.0 psd with 400 hp and 800 ft/lbs of torque to boot!
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 04:06 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Unrealo4
Your stateing that there is not a cummins 5.9 I6 available in a new truck since 1998? And that the last year it was sold with a new truck wasn't 2006? Just curious......and I can't fathom why you compared a modern diesel engine to a steam engine. Also in 2006 that cummins you implyed didn't exsist was putting out 325hp and 610rwt. But your right the steam engine is a better bet.
The classic 5.9 I6 was replaced by the ISB, a totally different animal.

The last year the 12V version was available was 1998.

The new 24V ISB that was introduced in mid-1998 had a few years that was OK, before it went EGR in mid-2002.

Once it started doing EGR, reliability plunged, as with almost every engine that started down that road.
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 04:07 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Troy Buenger
My brother in law just sold his 2004 6.0 psd and bought his second 07 Dodge Cummins with the 5.9. He went all the way to Arizona to buy it since it's hard to find these trucks in TX in good shape. His experience with the Cummins 5.9 vs the 6.0 is completely unlike your experience.

Maybe you had a bad 5.9!

Nope, my farrier has had bad experiences with his 5.9(he has had 3 of them including an 07).

We probably are still in the minority, but don't think you may not run a risk of getting a bad one. Another thing that put me off (and has already been mentioned in this thread) is that the rest of the truck falls apart a little too quickly. I don't care if the engine is sound, if the surrounding truck doesn't last to me it's a package deal.
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 04:09 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by gearloose1
Once it started doing EGR, reliability plunged, as with almost every engine that started down that road.
I thought Dodge didn't use the EGR until after Ford come out with the 6.0? They used credits and paid fines to delay coming out with it til later.
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 04:19 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by High Binder
I keep the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition just praying.
If you want to get rid of it that bad just leave it overnight in any of the Southwestern states in a Walmart parking lot or where ever. You can even lock the doors. It will be gone by morning and running drugs and illegals in a couple of days across the border. To the OP, sorry to hear your truck was stolen. Did you have jimmy jammers on it? I put them on all four of my doors when my truck was almost stolen.
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 04:23 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by tex25025
I thought Dodge didn't use the EGR until after Ford come out with the 6.0? They used credits and paid fines to delay coming out with it til later.


CUMMINS TAKES THE LEAD IN DIESEL EMISSIONS TECHNOLOGY: NEW ISB ENGINE IS FIRST TO MEET EPA'S 2.5-GRAM NOx PLUS NMHC STANDARD
>Cleveland, OH - 10 Sep 2001
>
Cummins Inc. today introduced the next generation of its six-cylinder ISB 5.9-liter engine – to meet the EPA's 2.5-gram NOx and NMHC standard for 2002, ahead of schedule – at the BusCon Show in Cleveland.

The new low-emissions ISB is the latest in the Cummins proven "B" Series family of engines. More than 2 million B Series engines have been produced since its introduction.

This new higher-technology ISB will be available in July 2002 and is an excellent match for bus applications, in terms of both performance and features.

>"Cummins has designed this new B Series engine to meet the needs of our customers," said John Malina, general manager, Cummins worldwide bus business. "For the bus market, we have focused on the safety and
sociability aspects of the engine. Drivers will experience an engine that is 80
percent quieter than its predecessor, with the lowest smog-producing NOx level of
any diesel."

Cummins now leads the diesel industry in lower emissions by offering the advanced 5.9-liter engine at a standard of 2.5 grams of nitrogen oxides (NOx) plus nonmethane hydrocarbons (NMHC). Cummins has met this low-emissions standard, ahead of schedule, without using high-cost special fuel or expensive exhaust aftertreatment.

Cummins utilizes cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR), a system
integrated into the engine design and controlled by the engine electronics. Cooled
EGR works by routing a portion of the exhaust gas through a cooler and then introducing the cooled exhaust gas into the fresh intake charge air. This mixture contains fewer oxygen atoms per volume of charge, which lowers the flame temperature during combustion, thus reducing emissions.

"Cleaner air through lower emissions is a major concern for Cummins and
for our bus customers, especially those operating in urban environments,"
Malina added. "Considering the long life of a bus, often ten or more years of operation, it's important to us that Cummins customers get the cleanest
and quietest technology available at the time of purchase," he said.

The ISB's redesigned fuel system also helps the engine meet its clean-emissions standards. This high-pressure common rail system offers a number of benefits, including:

Lower emissions – due to more precise control of injection timing and fuel quantity over a wide range of engine speeds and loads
Lower noise – with pilot injection capability for improved noise control
Improved transient response – with increased injection pressure for better performance at low-end speeds
Improved cold-weather startability – from the high-pressure fuel system
This high-pressure common rail fuel system has proven its reliability in Cummins engines in Europe since October 2000, when the Euro III version of the six-cylinder ISB engine went into production.

Higher horsepower ratings for the ISB – 230 hp and above – use Variable Geometry Turbochargers (VGT), a state-of-the-art design feature already proven in more than 40,000 engines now operating in Europe.

These VGTs are integrated into the engine's electronic controls and work
by adjusting the nozzle size, thus changing the volume of the air flow, to improve the engine's performance. They allow for optimized air handling, which improves engine response at lower speeds. Customers will notice improved performance as the engine accelerates from a stop, as well as throughout the entire operating range. In addition to performance improvements, the ISB ratings with VGTs offer Cummins customers up to a 2 percent improvement in fuel economy over the current ISB.

To reduce engine noise, Cummins has moved the gear train to the rear of
this new ISB engine. Placing the cam, fuel pump and accessory drives in the
rear of the engine, together with the new high-pressure common rail fuel
system, results in an engine that is 7 dBA quieter than its predecessor. The
reduced noise – it's 80 percent quieter to the human ear – improves safety on the vehicle and reduces driver fatigue.

While there are a number of improvements with the new ISB, Cummins has retained several proven features from its predecessor. Those include a 24-valve cylinder head, which helps optimize combustion with the proper air/fuel mixture. Additionally, the rear gear train increases accessory drive capabilities. The ISB continues to offer vertically centered injection, which helps minimize the over-spray for longer service
intervals (up to 15,000-mile oil change intervals in school bus applications).

The ISB offers horsepower ratings from 185 to 275, with torque ranging
from 420 to 660 lb-ft. These ratings are specifically designed for optimized drivetrain packages.

"With its compact size, impressive fuel economy and performance – coupled with lower emissions and noise – the advanced ISB is an excellent solution for environmentally friendly bus applications," said Malina.

Cummins, headquartered in Columbus, Ind.
Cummins Using Cooled EGR and VNT to Meet Emissions - TDIClub Forums



The reason it is not seen as a "EGR" is because on the light duty truck version, it is done via the cam with valve timing, injection event control and timing, and turbo tweaking.

On the 12V I6, (1998) think the California spec ones had EGR.


Here is more on how it was done:


The 04.5+ camshafts have a profile that is conducive to creating an in-cylinder EGR effect. They do not in any way circulate exgaust gasses back thru the intake the way a normal EGR funtions.

The cam profile is only one part of the equation, the hot side of the turbo and how it is sized, the addition of a 3rd injection event at specific times, and injection timing all need to work in unison to create the EGR effect. Remove\change one or more and the effect is drastically reduced.

Changing the cam to the early design or even a 24V profile will take away at least part of it and put the power band band down into the lower portion, but, you have to tune injection timing to take advantage of that piece. The turbo is an easy replacement and will help also at the expense of spool time.

The Cummins designed in-cylinder solution was very specific and reliant on a lot of paramters working together to make meet emissions. It worked for the power levels the trucks shipped with, like anything else it tended to cause issues when the envelope was pushed to far.

and

The LSA was tightened on the later cams which gives some more over lap but not enough to cause exhuast to backup into the intake. The profile moves the exhaust valve opening later in the cycle and opens it faster I believe. I don't have the specs and working from memory so its not exact.

You would have to find the cam specs at Cummins or maybe a cam make, if I ever find them again will save them.

The turbo housing is quite small on the 3rd gens which raise the drive pressure. with the 3rd event firing in there it cna spike that DP really high and just not allow the exhaust to evacuate the cylinde in the time the exhaust vlave is open. Add the late injection timing in there and thats the gist of how it works.

NOX emissions is what this setup targets and that happens under high load high rpm conditions. In reality I don't see much of anything happening until 2500 rpm's or more and at least a 50-60% load factor. At an idle there really is no EGR effect happening.

The Smarty allows to you change duration, pressure, and timing to different settings, remove TQ management, reset the speed limiter, etc. The Edge is a duration box that does a set timing curve with no adjustment.

Yes you can advance the timing back to pre-04.5 specs or even more if desired. The Smarty is much more adjustable and one is able to fine tune quite a few more things than the Edge. The beta of the Smarty SSR is supposed to have even more adjustability on high\low paramters and such.

http://www.dieselbombers.com/5-9l-cr...shaft-egr.html
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 05:31 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by tex25025
Nope, my farrier has had bad experiences with his 5.9(he has had 3 of them including an 07).

We probably are still in the minority, but don't think you may not run a risk of getting a bad one. Another thing that put me off (and has already been mentioned in this thread) is that the rest of the truck falls apart a little too quickly. I don't care if the engine is sound, if the surrounding truck doesn't last to me it's a package deal.
Said another way, by brother in laws Ford was a King Ranch... No truck of any quality couldn't make up for the problems with the engine... He had to unload it!
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 06:15 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Troy Buenger
Said another way, by brother in laws Ford was a King Ranch... No truck of any quality couldn't make up for the problems with the engine... He had to unload it!
That's true, but I have a feeling that in some cases we expect perfection from man made machines especially when "we" think we are deserving of perfection due to how much "we" shelled out for something. But you are right, there has to be some consistency with quality with the engine and what surrounds it.
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 07:06 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by tex25025
I thought Dodge didn't use the EGR until after Ford come out with the 6.0? They used credits and paid fines to delay coming out with it til later.
I believe you are correct, Evan. The light duty Cummins didn't have a dedicated EGR system until 2007 on the 6.7's. A lot of guys liked the non EGR 5.9 CR motors, except they had a habit of melting down the #6 piston when they were turned up.
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 07:14 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Unrealo4
Your answer to the question in the thread title is simple. Cummins 5.9 I6 best mileage, best reliability, highest torqe (for the years it was made). They just wrapped it in a turd!
Ehh. I think an 03 to 08 look the best. The 2010/2011 are just straight ugly.
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 08:09 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by 2006powerstroke90
Ehh. I think an 03 to 08 look the best. The 2010/2011 are just straight ugly.
Yeah... what was the designers thinking when they put those "fish gills" on the hood!
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 08:19 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by tex25025
That's true, but I have a feeling that in some cases we expect perfection from man made machines especially when "we" think we are deserving of perfection due to how much "we" shelled out for something. But you are right, there has to be some consistency with quality with the engine and what surrounds it.
Tex,
Multiple trips to the shop/year is no where near perfection. I think when he saw his engine in pieces for a bed plate oil leak repair was the last straw!

Oil leaks, EGR valves, EGR cooler/Oil Cooler, Injectors and footing the bill for some of these repairs.

I would believe the perception of perfection would be a lack of the above.
 
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Old Feb 21, 2011 | 08:24 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Troy Buenger
Tex,
Multiple trips to the shop/year is no where near perfection. I think when he saw his engine in pieces for a bed plate oil leak repair was the last straw!

Oil leaks, EGR valves, EGR cooler/Oil Cooler, Injectors and footing the bill for some of these repairs.

I would believe the perception of perfection would be a lack of the above.
There is a lack of perfection somewhere along there that's for sure.

Out of all those, I've only had one injector issue and that was because I didn't tighten the oil rail enough after I put in my modified injectors. That does tend to slant me a certain way.
 
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