Commit piracy...get 30 years ????
Elder User
Joined: Jul 2003
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I believe he is referring to what he may perceive as some folks calling for the execution of the pirates without some sort of due process. Reading through the thread, I can see where he might get that impression from some folks. Heck, if he's worried about the US getting dirty....just let the Russians handle it.
While technically they are common criminals who, in a best case scenario, deserve their day in court...that simply isn't always possible. The lives of the hostages are always paramount so if it is necessary to pop them rather than cuff 'em and stuff 'em, so be it.
While technically they are common criminals who, in a best case scenario, deserve their day in court...that simply isn't always possible. The lives of the hostages are always paramount so if it is necessary to pop them rather than cuff 'em and stuff 'em, so be it.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 443
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From: Brandon, MS
I believe he is referring to what he may perceive as some folks calling for the execution of the pirates without some sort of due process. Reading through the thread, I can see where he might get that impression from some folks. Heck, if he's worried about the US getting dirty....just let the Russians handle it.
While technically they are common criminals who, in a best case scenario, deserve their day in court...that simply isn't always possible. The lives of the hostages are always paramount so if it is necessary to pop them rather than cuff 'em and stuff 'em, so be it.
While technically they are common criminals who, in a best case scenario, deserve their day in court...that simply isn't always possible. The lives of the hostages are always paramount so if it is necessary to pop them rather than cuff 'em and stuff 'em, so be it.
If option b had been exercised, there is no doubt those US Navy SEALs would have been tried as murderers. I know my point is not a popular one but knowing maritime law and rules of engagment, I know there was no choice but to bring the fourth to the US for trial.
Call me what you will, I don't care, because the truth is the Navy and the US did the correct thing and I stand with my Navy brethren in defending that action.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 23,849
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From: McKenzie River
The Russians have a history of EXTREME heavy handedness when dealing with terrorists, pirates etc. thats their way. The SEALS carried the mission out as ordered, 3 shots, 3 dead pirates........sounds pretty efficient to me! Once the earlier captured, wounded pirate had received medical care aboard the USS Bainbridge, executing him would have brought cries of murder. I also stand behind the USN's handling of the affair. Pirates caught in the act, should be killed in action, but the laws of the sea say you do not machine gun floating survivors.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 40,050
Likes: 1,524
From: Maine, Virginia
True, but, that fourth pirate was captured before the incident transformed into the lifeboat situation. Those three pirates were killed, and righfully so, but the fourth presented a problem, meaning: a) treat his injuries on the USS Bainbridge and bring him to the US to stand trial OR b) kill him
If option b had been exercised, there is no doubt those US Navy SEALs would have been tried as murderers. I know my point is not a popular one but knowing maritime law and rules of engagment, I know there was no choice but to bring the fourth to the US for trial.
Call me what you will, I don't care, because the truth is the Navy and the US did the correct thing and I stand with my Navy brethren in defending that action.
If option b had been exercised, there is no doubt those US Navy SEALs would have been tried as murderers. I know my point is not a popular one but knowing maritime law and rules of engagment, I know there was no choice but to bring the fourth to the US for trial.
Call me what you will, I don't care, because the truth is the Navy and the US did the correct thing and I stand with my Navy brethren in defending that action.
The Russians have a history of EXTREME heavy handedness when dealing with terrorists, pirates etc. thats their way. The SEALS carried the mission out as ordered, 3 shots, 3 dead pirates........sounds pretty efficient to me! Once the earlier captured, wounded pirate had received medical care aboard the USS Bainbridge, executing him would have brought cries of murder. I also stand behind the USN's handling of the affair. Pirates caught in the act, should be killed in action, but the laws of the sea say you do not machine gun floating survivors.
I'm pretty certain that no one here has had more up close and personal experience WRT shipboard prisoners at sea than myself. The many dozens that I've come in contact with had received medical attention, 3 squares a day, clothing and personal hygiene needs.
If arrested they do deserve a trial and subsequent punishment. IMHO, a slug in the back of the head is appropriate if found guilty.
When prisoners are apprehended at sea, the entire evolution is video and audio taped. The prisoners are treated well. The crew and mainly the LE detachment or boarding team are completely debriefed and everyone is on the same page. One screw up and all that hard work is in vain.
Lastly, I don't appreciate being compared to a Somalian pirate. I know how professional our US Naval and Coast Guard forces are while underway.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 23,849
Likes: 20
From: McKenzie River
As appealing as it sounds, you cannot just cap captured pirates in the back of the head and toss them over the side for the fish, its not the way of the USN or the way "most" powers conduct themselves at sea. The sea is in itself a harsh, unforgiving environment, the rules of combat at sea differs to reflect this. As late as WWII (the last major naval war) German U-boats would (when conditions allowed) surface to give food and water to the lifeboat survivors of torpedoed ships, USN ships were frequently seen fishing Japanese survivors from the sea. Though these are examples of the conduct of uniformed sailors of their respective nations at war, pirates do represent a problem as being un-uniformed combatants or more aptly terrorists, even on land, captured terrorists are usually held for intell and to be kept for trial. I see no reason why pirates should not suffer the same fate as captured terrorists,.... die in combat or be captured, face interrogation, await trial and justice.........however harsh that may eventually be.
The USN operates on the highest levels of professionalism,.... murdering captured personnel is not among their job descriptions.
The USN operates on the highest levels of professionalism,.... murdering captured personnel is not among their job descriptions.
Elder User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 717
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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding ya'll, or you're misunderstanding me, but I do not nor would I ever advocate the killing of an unarmed prisoner outside the constraints of a duly court authorized execution such as a death sentence handed down in court. The comment about the Russians was meant to show the person concerned about the way the US is perceived that compared to others, we act with restraint.
I was simply stating that while, in a perfect world, ALL pirates deserve a trial that in the real world that is not always possible....such as the case with the 3 pirates who were dealt with by the SEALS. Until there is a change in maritime law back to the old days, which I do not advocate due to the potential problems, I would fully support murder charges against anyone who killed an unarmed prisoner.
I was simply stating that while, in a perfect world, ALL pirates deserve a trial that in the real world that is not always possible....such as the case with the 3 pirates who were dealt with by the SEALS. Until there is a change in maritime law back to the old days, which I do not advocate due to the potential problems, I would fully support murder charges against anyone who killed an unarmed prisoner.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 443
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From: Brandon, MS
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding ya'll, or you're misunderstanding me, but I do not nor would I ever advocate the killing of an unarmed prisoner outside the constraints of a duly court authorized execution such as a death sentence handed down in court. The comment about the Russians was meant to show the person concerned about the way the US is perceived that compared to others, we act with restraint.
I was simply stating that while, in a perfect world, ALL pirates deserve a trial that in the real world that is not always possible....such as the case with the 3 pirates who were dealt with by the SEALS. Until there is a change in maritime law back to the old days, which I do not advocate due to the potential problems, I would fully support murder charges against anyone who killed an unarmed prisoner.
I was simply stating that while, in a perfect world, ALL pirates deserve a trial that in the real world that is not always possible....such as the case with the 3 pirates who were dealt with by the SEALS. Until there is a change in maritime law back to the old days, which I do not advocate due to the potential problems, I would fully support murder charges against anyone who killed an unarmed prisoner.
Originally Posted by chaosracing
Looks like the Navy SEAL sniper team should go back to the range.
More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 624
Likes: 2
From: FL
yes, and for some strange reason new attacks on russian flag ships have fallen off to practically nothing.
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