The diffrence between a 351m and a 400
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: Edinburg, Texas
What is the visual diffrence between a 351m and a true 400? I bought a truck with a remanufactored "351m". The problem I am haveing Is that when I go buy parts I tell them 351m I get winsor parts. I tell them 400 and I get the proper parts. Just. Wondering if I have a 400 instead of a 351m?
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
Likes: 1
From: southeren Oh
Thats a good idea if you get a counter guy that knows Fords, sadly many of the "counter parts gods" were not even born when ford made clevelands and 400s.
I almost always look up part numbers online beore I show up at a parts store.It makes life much simpler than trying to explain engines swaped, dual tranfer cases, rear end swaps,........
I almost always look up part numbers online beore I show up at a parts store.It makes life much simpler than trying to explain engines swaped, dual tranfer cases, rear end swaps,........
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,922
Likes: 153
Every thing else except for the reciprocating mass should be the same between 351m and the 400. Pushrods are longer in the 351m-400 vs the 351 cleveland due to the taller deck, but heads, dizzy (as long as it's got the correct diameter shaft-they changed them in the 351c), water pump, timing gear, lifters, cam and balancer should all swap over. Just to screw you over they run the same mains as a 351 windsor. They are bigger than a 351 cleveland, so if you order a rebuild kit don't get cranky if the main bearings are marked for a windsor. Apparently also if you swap over the gear on the dizzy from a windsor to a cleveland item a windsor distributor will fit (pending shaft diameter of course) but I havn't had sufficient intel to prove that to me yet one way or another. Back to the original poost, the only way to check for sure, considering some-one already has fiddled with it is to either pull a head or rip the sump off and check the stroke. You cant effectively check the stroke down the plug hole due to the angley. the 351m-400 is only taller from the dizzy mount up. Also you wouldn't try to trick someone into buying a 351m over a 400 by calling it a 351m. I'm sure it's been done the other way around as we've discussed it is near impossible to prove without a minor teardown so there would be quite a few who've ended up with the smaller capacity engine and been misled. In just ancilliaries it will make no difference to you for bolting stuff on and off, but power and parts for a rebuild are a different story. Just hope he got it wrong and you have a 400, much better. In saying that if it was a 351m and you went to rebuild it in the future, Tim Meyer does a 434 stroker kit and insted of trying to build a 400, that would be a sweet thing. much easier justifying a new crank etc and going bigger if you have to already. I have got my head around ford v8's in the last couple of years of messing with mine and they all have a place, but that 351m seems just a WOFTAM. It is nowhere the same in a comparison between 289-302-351 windsors and the 302-351 cleveland where they either grew or were done for a performance application. They rebuild 302's (cleveland) a lot down here in OZ and they rev like a demon and go like the clappers. The 302 (4.9) windsors are in a lot of the local V8 falcons depending what year they were( they ran clevelands for a while, stopped putting V8s in them in the mid 80's and when they did so again they used windsors) in and they get a bit of workdone too.
Whats the matter ? Couldn't you get your wire to bend ? Obviously YOU can't tell the difference this way between a 351M or 400 but more than a few of us on here can easilly do it.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 831
Likes: 1
From: Tanilba bay NSW Australia
settle down big fella!! you don't have to stab me over it. go over there and do it for him then, or send your appropriate bendy wire over so he can check it himself. If thats the only thing you can get me for out of the whole post, I'll happily stand corrected. I knew mine was a 400 and didn't have to check. I did say effectively didn't I. That means that it isn't always easy. If he is writing to this forum he is after something a bit easier than feeding a bit of wire down a hole trying to get a dimension. I also believed that he probably hasn't got gauranteed 400 to check it against. It is always easier if you've got two side by side for comparison. Once done like that he'll probably never forget just like you. problem solved. considering the guy asked for help a page ago, I'm surprised you didn't tell him that back at the start and save the rest of us the hassle instead of picking on something I said and cutting me up. But, I am new to 400's and like them a lot and I've had a steeping curve as they're different to the masses of 351 clevelands over here in oz just enough that parts and info aren't that great to come by (all praise to Tim M). I have been in various machining (a long time ago mind) and heavy industry that I can pull stuff apart and put it back together ok and usually know when something isn't quite right and needs more work or information. There is very little in the way of info on forums over here, and this one is by far the best I've found. And I have read a lot of stuff from you, popajon, Tim meyer and others that has been very helpful and informative. Peace??
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 6
From: Cranbrook, Ont., Canada
YOU are more than welcome my friend. I to have learnt a lot from TMI and a host of others who have bin there done that. My hat is off to those who have been patient enough to teach rather than condem those of us who are new to the 351M/400s. Some times it is better to let those who rag out on us newbies to just ignore them and carry on. I'm sure there are others who agree and others who won't Have a great week mate!!!
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 831
Likes: 1
From: Tanilba bay NSW Australia
Thanks mate. All good. I know i've been a pest sometimes (read most) in trying to make it go better with cheaper/different or better gear. I'm trying to get some photos in a gallery of my LTD. I don't have an F truck yet, but would love a bronco with a cracking 400 (or 434!!) in it.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
I do have a true 400 to put side by side but if. Your like me and don't know where to look then it really is no help I knew that the strokes were diffrent but can't really check that effectively. Without pulling the heads off. Really don't want to tear down a running motor just to find out if it's a 400 or not. Know what I mean. But the link tmi posted to the pics had some usefull info on it so thank to him for posting that link. Thanks for all the post.
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Elder User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 831
Likes: 1
From: Tanilba bay NSW Australia
All good friend. Good luck. I thought I was hard done by with the 400 over here in OZ but the mercury/lincoln gear is even harder. And I know it's a ford forum, but the non chevy GM stuff (olds, pontiac etc) are real trainspotter material. Be very glad you don't have one of those. It may be different in the US though.
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