A,
__Disembodied/Ghost title is usually a clean/solid title (tax's paid-up to date)
accompanied with VIN-plate or VIN-plate+sticker & may/may-not come with license-plate
off a vehicle that no longer has the suppose said body.

These Ghost-titles are usually sold for the purpose to title a clean/solid vehicle that don't have one.
A.K.A. donor-car, parts-car, paper work nightmare.

Now when used for honest purposes, the ghost-title is a real godsend to save some great sheet-metal.

If used for dis-honest purposes, we all know how bad that is...


Know that is out of the way.

Got some Q's for you all.

1. Just how useful would a ghost-title be to you?
2. What would one consider fair price for one? (The usual known asking price $100-$300.)
3. If use for a ghost-title came up would you buy/sell one? Or do you consider it a practice, for only unscrupulous & bad-trade people?

Remember this thread is to discuss Ghost-titles, NOT to buy/sell them!
Keep it friendly, it's just a thread. Not a grip/b*tch I got ripped thread.

I'm posting this thread to aid people to become more aware of this trade.
Ghost-titles have there place.
Usually among good friends, & well known honest tradesmen.
.

 

Wow, I'd never even heard of such a thing until now. I though we were going to be talking horror movies.

Anyway to answer the questions...

1. I don't see such a thing ever being useful to me, though I'm sure they have their place or they wouldn't exist.
2. I have no idea.
3. I doubt it. Sounds like too much of a headache. I'm sure the criminals like them though.

 

I would have bought one when i bought my short bed rust free 4x4 parts truck cause of no title but bought a second short bed 4x4 instead for parts for the rust free one.

 

These,
__Ghost-titles usually come in to existence
from people that refused to let go of a good/solid title.
But have recycled, or parted out the body.

Among true hoarders & collective tradesmen, this little oddity in automotive trade exists.
Most avid restorers don't know about this trade, or plain just avoid the topic.
In part due to it's little known existence, & it's pain to locate a suitable body for the title.

The bigger the group of collaborating people, the easier it's usually found to do.

Works backwards more than the passing forward.
In some instances a person has owned a vehicle that has been reincarnated a time or two.
Basically the owner has had more than one body to there said owned auto's title.
For example; rust has taken it's toll on the body & frame, & you have or know of a clean parts rig.
.

 

I could see where this could cause issues down the road. However, when I was growing up, you would buy a pickup and fix it up. Soon, you would smash it into a ditch. You would go to the junkyard and buy another truck. You would swap your engine,trans, and other good parts into the junkyard truck. One of these good parts was your license plate.

Of course, that meant that the title didn't match the VIN. It didn't seem to matter because, 1) we never planned on getting rid of our truck 2) we had the "real" VIN on our parts truck 3) we would probably wreck the truck long before we would sell it.
Problems could arise if we were in a wreck, got stopped by a nasty cop that decided to check the VIN against our registration (known it to happen), or were spotted by the trucks original owner that wanted the truck back (known that to happen also).

I would hate to invest much time or money into a vehicle without a "clean" title. Many states have a way to get a "lost" title. Here, I have to let them run the VIN and get a Notarized letter from the last owner. Of course, if the VIN checks clean, the last owner is easily found out in the parking lot. I currently have a 69 F100 with three different VINs I'm working with. I suspect there has been something sneaky going on.

I've been seeing people holding on to there titles from scrapped vehicles to acquire title loans. Now that's sneaky!

 

Regardless of what you call it, simply swapping another vin onto a truck is illegal at the federal level, and typically carries a sentence of 5-15 years.
The far better route to go is to first have the vin run by the local law authorities, and verify it's a clean and titleable vehicle to begin with. If not, then either pass on it or make it a parts vehicle. Do this BEFORE you invest the first penny in the truck, and you'll be far ahead.
Pretty much all trucks have a VIN stamped into the frame, on the pre-60 trucks it's typically under the radiator on the crossmember, and on later trucks it's on the right top frame flange just ahead of the axle centerline. Not always the easiest to get to, but doable especially if you're going to be restoring the truck anyways.

 

And another issue especially for classic vehicles earlier than the mid-80s or so, for those with bodies that can be physically separated from the frame: To which VIN is the insurance tied? The frame VIN always takes precedence over any other numbers. A '32 Ford body on a '70's Pinto frame but insured as a '32 caused an accident involving death. What do you think the insurance company is saying? Three years later the owner is appealing multiple convictions, all of which center around causing a motor vehicle death without insurance. A word to the wise: Make sure your numbers match - all of them.

 

I agree with Ford six.. highly illegal at state and fed level. In Ks you can get an assembled vehicle title,(where you combine 3 major componets with bill of sales) or a quiet title through the court system, or an antique title with only a bill of sale. However they have to be 35 years old to qualify for antique.. I know all state laws vary but I wouldnt touch that buy a VIN deal with a 10 foot pole...

 

I don't see how it's possible. As a scrapper, the serial number has to be attached to the vehicle, the paper work to the DVM has to have the serial number on it, or the vehicle will be turned away. I have lots of tittles, but they're all useless. The DMV registers the vehicle as scrapped, and that is as far as you can go.You can scrap anything over 7 years without a tittle, but it has to have a serial number on it, and goes through the same process with DMV.

 

Good,
__to here from everyone here.

True that it is a dicey subject here.
Most consider it to be used for ill-gains.

But when used for saving vintage sheet-medal. It can very helpful.
I've been witness to frame swaps, that ease the changeover from 2wd to 4wd.
Never seen, nor' heard a comment on cutting the
VIN off the frame then welding back in place off the old.

I'd have to admit never seen a numbers-matching truck with no missing plates/stickers that often.
Heck, the only one's I've seen are original, 2nd owners, barnfinds & show quality.
Most of these old dogs get put through a lifetime of work, then put back together to do again.

So for some, putting a solid engine & drivetrain in replacement body with frame.
Then applying the VIN tag, VIN sticker & lic-plate, just so to keep the rig.
I'd have no problems with part.
Mabe you come across a solid truck that has a long-gone junked title, for a great deal.
Yeah, one could can go through the paperwork to get the rig back to road legal.
For some this fine, for others having to go through crap is not fine.

Now throwing a clean VIN tag on a cobbled together p.o.s. to turn a profit.
That makes me sick & angry. The classics are too often used for these scams.

This is one of the reasons for this thread.
To keep this trade from being abused by scumbags with no ethical sense & care only about money.

The more whom know of this trade, the more honest it can be kept.
It is meant to keep good vintage sheet-medal on the road.
& also keep a honest person back on the road without the crap waiting for paperwork to come through.
.

 

I am also a scrapper when I can find it. Never once has the local scrap yard asked to know a serial number of a vehicle I brought. They take it off the trailer, smash it, and are done with it.

 

Has,
__any-one known of someone or done have moved the VIN-tag (door-tag)
VIN-sticker (door-jam sticker) & frame VIN all @ once?

Never known of this being done. Only two of the three. For me.

Second, thought.
If the frame is that what's titled.
Why stamp the VIN in a hard to read spot?
Why when a VIN check is done, they read the body VIN?

Then how come when doing a restoration, the rusty weak frame goes to the recycling heap.
& replaced with a built all-new one?

For all this titled to the frame stuff is sounding like a pretty weak argument to me.
.

 

it used to be that way in MD. they even have a copy of your licence on the indemnity form now, I guess so if DMV finds a problem with the serial number, they can slam you quicker. I like the "when you can find it" comment,scrapping sure dried up, didn't it?

 

Yeah you cant make a living being just a scrapper around where I live anymore. Use to lots of people around my area made a good living and did nothin but haul scrap. Makes it even harder when you find stuff that is still in good enough condition to be salvageable and you don't really wanna haul it across the scales.

Its really not worth your time nowadays either unless the scrap price is way up when you consider sometimes it takes hours to load a single piece of scrap. And you have to drag generators and torches and cutting tools into the middle of nowhere.

 

I have, I think, 3 separate "ghost titles" for Triumph TR7's that I had in the past. Complete with the VIN number plate that gets pop-riveted to the door pillar.

I would never ever sell them, because first, I'd get in trouble if anything happened.

It's more of a keepsake for cars that got totaled, or just gotten rid of over the years.

I happen to have them because the body in question WAS recycled/crushed/shredded, but the recycler didn't give a hoot about the titles. This was back in the late 80's.

One was a complete shell (unibody), the other two I split in half and hauled to the yard separately (one half fit in my highboy's bed )