Think you need:

a) verify battery voltage (see link below for battery test).

Cranking, with glow plugs on, should be at least 9.7 v

b) try some cetane boost and power service...

I have a easier time starting than you.... and I am colder... and I am not using a block heater.

 

Do you have a source for that figure? From reading different threads here I was under the impression that the minimum cranking voltage with good batteries should be in the 11 volts + range.

 

Yes.

I ran my own tests on my own batteries last winter on one of the coldest days.

Think somewhere in my posts, I posted the voltages.

That was the lowest I got --- and my batteries last year tested good on the Ford battery testing machine at the dealer.


Remember, I don't live where you people do, and up here, we have different standards.


For example, where you are, you probably got sold a "southern" battery in the trade....

Where I am, I have a "northern" battery.

Nowhere in the battery shop is there a sign posting this little fact... but anyone in the battery business will tell you that this is in fact true.

Take my batteries and drive south in the midst of summer, my batteries will die very quickly (if not within weeks).

Likewise, your batteries will probably not be able to start my truck in the winter.

Ahhhh tricks of the trade...

 

I believe Ford states never below 10V cranking - I am looking for the reference!


11.5V is the expected minimum (TSB 10-12-6) - KOEO.


Good memory Steve

 

TSB 10-12-6

ISSUE:

Some 2003-2007 F-Super Duty, 2003-2005 Excursion and 2004-2010 E-Series vehicles equipped with a 6.0L engine may exhibit a runs rough, lacks power, hard start, no start concern with or without diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P0611 code or various injector circuit codes. This concern may be caused by a DC-DC converter located in one half of the Fuel Injector Control Module (FICM) or by the main circuit board in the other half of the FICM.
ACTION:

Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.
SERVICE PROCEDURE



FICM Information:
The FICM contains two major internal components, the main circuit board and a DC-DC converter. The DC-DC converter is the device that amplifies battery voltage to 48 volts to operate the injectors.
Low FICM supply voltage results in increased FICM operating loads, potentially damaging or shortening the life of the FICM.
For contribution codes without circuit codes, go to Powertrain Controls/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) pinpoint test P. Do not continue with this procedure.

1. Connect Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) scan tool and confirm battery voltage is greater then 11.5 volts key on engine off (KOEO).
   1. If battery voltage is less then 11.5 volts KOEO, do not continue with this article. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 414-00.
   2. If battery voltage is 11.5 volts KOEO or higher, continue to Step 2.
2. Remove the FICM relay.
3. Perform a programmable module installation (PMI) on the FICM to correct possible corrupt FICM memory.
   1. IDS scan tool software must be at release level 65.18, or higher.
   2. Select module programming on the IDS menu screen.
   3. Select PMI and click on the tick button at the bottom right corner of the screen.
   4. Follow the directions on the screen until it states to install the new module. At this point, click on the tick button again and continue to follow the on screen directions to complete the PMI procedure.
4. Reinstall the FICM relay.
5. Monitor the FICM_M power parameter identification (PID) per the following instructions:
   1. Disconnect the glow plug control module (GPCM) VPWR circuit to isolate the GPCM and alternator from the FICM and provide more consistent FICM testing. (Figure 1)
      
      
      Figure 1 - Article 10-12-6
   2. Disconnect the fuel heater relay, if equipped.
   3. With IDS already installed, turn ignition to run position.
6. Monitor engine oil temperature (EOT) PID.
   1. If EOT reads 32 °F (0 °C) or less, proceed to Step 11
   2. If EOT reads greater than 32 °F (0 °C), proceed to Step 7.
7. Turn ignition off.
8. Disconnect the EOT sensor.
9. Using Rotunda Technician Tool Program Universal Gauge and Component Tester (OTC3385) or equivalent, adjust setting to 100,000 ohms resistance. Verify tester resistance using a digital volt ohm meter (DVOM) with 10 mega ohm minimum impedance.
10. Connect the instrument gauge system tester between the EOT signal and SIGRTN circuits at the harness side of the EOT connector.
    1. Failure to apply exactly 100,000 ohms of resistance at this location may result in inaccurate test results.
11. With key on and engine off, monitor the FICM_MPWR PID and record the value.
12. Cycle the ignition to off and back to run position to activate the injector pre-cycle. Monitor the FICM_MPWR PID and ensure voltage reading is greater than 45 volts during the entire duration of the last 10 seconds of the fuel injectors clicking.
    1. If FICM_M power is 45 volts or greater, the PMI repaired the concern. Reassemble the EOT circuits if previously removed. Return vehicle to customer.
    2. If FICM_MPWR drops below 45 volts during pre-cycle, reassemble the EOT circuits if removed previously and proceed to FICM Half Shell Replacement procedure.

 

Test conditions were with the batteries fully charged over 2 days... and details were posted on here somewhere


I know what Ford said about 11.5V spec.... but I fell below it (the specs may be different where I am) on the coldest day last year when I tested.

Immediate question:

Is Ford spec test assuming room temperature (as in inside a service bay) vs. me testing outside on a freezing cold day?

I researched that quite a bit last year ---- as you recall, I also had an alternator die.

The alternator was replaced, and the batteries carefully verified:

The batteries, taken off vehicle, fully charged (Motorcrafts) went on the Ford battery tester, and passed.

They were within 36 months old... so I had a big stake in them honestly not passing!

Since I had no problem otherwise -- FICM etc... a year after, I think that is fair to say, the 9.7v minimum I set did no obvious harm yet.

The FICM voltage was last checked on the Ford IDS over the summer --- completely fine.

Not bad... for batteries that lost about 1/2 their capacity from cold alone...



Having said all this --- when in doubt.. follow the Ford procedure.

I am watching my batteries like a hawk (for other reasons --- like a sizable accessory load), and I see no sign of problems both running and starting.

Let me see what I measure in voltage again when it gets real cold in a week or two.


Just doing a bit of back of the envelope.. if I took my car inside a service bay, let it warm up to 50F overnite.. I think I would pass the 11.5V specs with flying colors.

 

Mark:


Reading the TSB carefully...

The 11.5V standard has nothing to do with what I measured!

It is the "pass" voltage for continuing further tests.

The TSB said absolutely nothing about voltage while cranking!


KOEO voltage is WAY above what I was doing --- which is measuring voltage while CRANKING with glow plugs on, headlights on, and everything hanging on it working including my fuel heater!!!

BTW, I also posted this voltage --- somewhere in the past.



Furthermore, lets read further:




Wait a minute!!!!!

Turn off two power hungry accessories before you measure FICM voltage!!!!


There is absolutely nothing in this bulletin that disagree with my assessment that my reading of 9.7v while cranking is wrong or that it is a red flag!!!


The 11.5V referenced above has nothing to do with voltage measured at the battery terminal while cranking / glow plugs / fuel heater / headlights on!

That is the way my truck operates --- headlights ARE ON while ignition is on... I cannot change it by law!





Thanks for confirming the validity of my approach.

 

Mark / Steve:

Lets do an experiment.

Take a Voltmeter to your vehicle.

Please measure voltage at battery terminals.

KOEO / Glow plugs on / Headlights on.

Crank.

Let's see what voltage you measure at cranking.


Here is mine from last year:



I had another data point from a colder day... but can't put my finger on it right now.

 

Gearloose - I corrected some of my previous posts for validity (actually back to my original thoughts of 10V or 10.5V min). I still think I recall reading that Ford literature states that cranking you should not be below 10V - maybe even 10.5V. Maybe it is in the WSM or PC/ED - still looking (and fully admit I could be mistaken).

I agree that the TSB I posted earlier (stating 11.5V) was for KOEO, so it didn't match your earlier case.

I did measure my starting voltage (actually I do every start w/ my DashDAQ, but did it again w/ the voltmeter) lights on, radio on, and glow plugs on. The voltage dropped to 10.4V.

I have the DashDAQ set to alarm at 10.5V, so it is consistent with an OCCASIONAL, but infrequent verbal alarm I get on start-up.

I also will say that I do not have a fuel heater - as you know!!

 

Glad we are roughly on the same page.

10.4 vs. 9.7 isn't that much difference, when you figure that I am down 50% battery power just from normal weather (with 100% charge).

With batteries down just 30%... I can be at 35%... from weather.

You don't have a fuel heater, I do.. another variance.

Suppose the Ford specs assume room temp... or service bay temp.. I pass with a big margin.

Think we agree!

Bonus: at my low temperatures, there is much lesser risk of FICM failure from heat!
Close enough for government work, AFAIK

 

Master Mark!

We may have our differences, and rarely are we not able to come to a mutual consensus...

From the first time I showed up on this site!

Happy New Year....

Hope you saw the thread below:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...tributors.html

 

I get that 10V warning from my Bel65 if it's on but usually just on cold starts.

 

Further thoughts:


I got 9.9v cranking at 5C / 40F

That is with 15w-40 dino.

Got to get a battery / temp discharge chart to do this with a battery guy, but,

If you upped temp to 65F / 20C, I would thumbnail guess it would add at least .2V, maybe as much as .3V.

That brings us up to 10.2 vs 10.4


Looking on the load side of the equation:

I have a fuel heater (fairly big draw - 150watt)

Racor P Series

"Hotel" load of very little if,

- blower off (that is 20 to 30 amp draw right there)

- AC clutch (say 10 amp?)

- stereo off

- no heated seats / etc.

- headlamps technically always on (120 or so watt)


- if you are using 5w-40 synth, and I am using 15w-40 dino, that lowers your cranking energy required --- again, giving you a higher voltage.

-----------------


The regular "operating" load of PCM/BCM/ FICM / fuel pump misc. electricals is I would guess 600 to 800 watt.

The starter is rated at 3.0kw not counting the starter solenoid.

So while starting, you are pulling something something like 4,000 watts between the regular electronics, fuel pump, and what not --- with the AC and blower off.

Side note: turn off AC and blower for max cranking power.

That is somewhere around 300 to 350 amps... depending on voltage.



----------------

I would say, once the fuel heater is out of the equation, we are probably within .1 V of each others readings --- once corrected for temperature, and age / condition of battery.

There is a major variance -- Steve and Mark/bismic have southern batteries, I have a Northern battery.

That means they get longer life / better heat protection, but lower cold cranking amps / surge power.

I get shorter life in heat, but much higher "surge" cold cranking amps, and more burst power but less sustained power.




The only other variance is cabling --- you upgraded yours, I haven't yet.

That gives you a bit more ---- again, fitting the hypothesis.

Any finer detail, we are into variance in our methods of measurement, calibration of our instruments, experimental error.



Net Assessment: we both have about the same reading --- once properly corrected.

The big variable to correct for is temperature of batteries.


------------------


Where does that leave us?


A 10V while cranking standard with no accessories on at 65 degrees is not bad.

A somewhat lower one -- maybe 9.7V standard in cold temps at down to 20F?


Right back to where we started!


Plus the data is now validated on 2 known good vehicles... so it is pretty good.

 

I think the headlights go off while cranking.
Not sure if this is due to low voltage, or an override.

When I use the "auto headlights" they go out while cranking
in the dark.