Turning up fuel advice
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 225
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Turning up fuel advice
First of all, I am not looking to blow a cloud of black smoke, I just want the most out of my motor. I tried to turn the fuel up, but could not budge the screw. I was just using an allen wrench alone, it there another trick to make it budge. Don't want to break anything. Could it be maxed out? It will blow a little smoke with I am empty and I just flat stomp on it. When I am working it hard, it will not smoke at all. Should I try to turn the fuel up, or keep it where it is at. When I pull my fifth wheel, it is a complete dog when going up any grade. There is one hill where I am down to 25 mph and no smoke, RPMs are up and not lugging, but can't get it to really rev up and work. It will get to 2500 RPMs, but not much more and I am in second gear. I am also wondering if I need a new pump. It has 180,000 and appears to be the original pump. It is an 87 F350 Crew Cab with a C6 and 4:10 gears, Banks Sidewinder and a Gear Vendor. Any Advice appreciated. It just seems I should get more performance out of the old gal.
Cargo Master
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,493
Likes: 3
From: NY
Sounds just like 87duallycrew's truck, anyway, did you turn fuel up when you installed the sidewinder? Because the Banks kits require you to turn up fuel 1 flat (1/4 of a turn). I recently turned the IP up and the screw was hard to turn, It worked best with a vise grips on the allen key. Remember clockwise is turning fuel up, counterclockwise is turning fuel down. If you have a banks kit(BTW: is it waste-gated?) you also probably have a pyrometer so you're fine there.
How heavy is the fifth wheel you tow? I'd have to be a lot to make a banks turbo'd IDI go 25 mph up a hill-thats what mine did before the turbo.
I won't comment on the IP pump though, I've never had any trouble with mine or replaced it so I wouldn't know the difference between a good or bad one.
How heavy is the fifth wheel you tow? I'd have to be a lot to make a banks turbo'd IDI go 25 mph up a hill-thats what mine did before the turbo.
I won't comment on the IP pump though, I've never had any trouble with mine or replaced it so I wouldn't know the difference between a good or bad one.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,361
Likes: 822
From: Mi'kma'ki
wow that's really doggy.especially with a turbo and 4.10's!
generally the injectors and ip have a 100k max efficiency life.-they can last longer however with proper care,and added lubricity supplements.but by the time you pull the install kit,and injectors,pay to have the injectors tested,a new install kit,your likely close to the price of a set of 8 injectors for the idi anyway lol.
they can last much longer out of spec of course,but the old girl just wont have what she used too.
they also say the timing should be checked every 20-30k miles.
of course the fuel filter every 60k or 4 yrs,and the air filter seems to go about 10k iv noticed before she's pretty black and needs a washing/re-oil (or replacement if stock.)
more fuel,is generally the last thing you want to do to try and look for more power.
a proper diesel tune up,and then more air into and out of the engine is key.
worry about the boost and fuel after these things are brought back to life is best.otherwise,your fuel economy is going to be measured in miles per foot vs miles per gallon lol.
generally the injectors and ip have a 100k max efficiency life.-they can last longer however with proper care,and added lubricity supplements.but by the time you pull the install kit,and injectors,pay to have the injectors tested,a new install kit,your likely close to the price of a set of 8 injectors for the idi anyway lol.
they can last much longer out of spec of course,but the old girl just wont have what she used too.
they also say the timing should be checked every 20-30k miles.
of course the fuel filter every 60k or 4 yrs,and the air filter seems to go about 10k iv noticed before she's pretty black and needs a washing/re-oil (or replacement if stock.)
more fuel,is generally the last thing you want to do to try and look for more power.
a proper diesel tune up,and then more air into and out of the engine is key.
worry about the boost and fuel after these things are brought back to life is best.otherwise,your fuel economy is going to be measured in miles per foot vs miles per gallon lol.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 225
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Thanks for the responses and input. I replaced the injectors and did a return line kit about 2 months ago. Hoping that it would help. I did not notice a big difference, but did help a little. Everything else is been addressed. I have 3" to the muffler and 3.5" coming out. Thinking about straight piping it. Will that make a difference. I have not touched the timing, but sounds like I need the tool or take it in. It seems to be ok though. It has a Powerstroke rattle at high idle in the morning and then kicks down to normal. It does seem to have a louder rattle now than before after the new injectors. I think I am going to try and turn the fuel up tomorrow. I tried before, but was afraid of breaking the allen wrench, the screw would not budge.
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Senior User
Joined: Oct 2009
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I used a smaller crescent wrench on the allen wrench when turning the screw.
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Mi'kma'ki
There is one hill where I am down to 25 mph and no smoke, RPMs are up and not lugging, but can't get it to really rev up and work. It will get to 2500 RPMs, but not much more and I am in second gear. I am also wondering if I need a new pump. It has 180,000 and appears to be the original pump. It is an 87 F350 Crew Cab with a C6 and 4:10 gears, Banks Sidewinder
nothing wrong with adding more fuel should the engine be able to handle it,but let me share more info with you about proper diesel tune up and maintenance;
"During the life of the engine, these parts are in constant use, as the injection pump rotates as part of the valve train, and the injectors fire once per power stroke of each cylinder. These parts, generally speaking, are medium wear items, and typically last about 100,000 miles. The main factor determining the lifespan of these parts is the quality of the fuel being used in the vehicle, and any additives that are being used. Due to the high tolerances inside the injection pump, a supplemental lubricity fuel additive is always recommended for longest life. Since the engine is rated for 300,000 miles, this group of parts typically requires replacement several times over the lifespan of the engine.
In closing, a final comment, with regard to pump timing. A properly timed pump can make the difference between a great truck which the owner loves to drive and wants to keep, and a truck that the owner feels he may have wasted his money on. In almost all cases, when the injection pump mark is aligned with the mark provided on the pump gear housing (known as being “static timed”), the pump will be retarded several degrees. The result is a smooth running engine, with very clear exhaust and the owner may find the performance to be satisfactory. However, until the pump is advanced to 8.5 degrees (factory spec) BTDC using the pulse method, the true performance of the engine will not be realized. A properly timed engine (which has been dynamically timed with special equipment) will have significantly more pick up, and much better fuel economy that one that is static timed. It will also smoke a bit more! Therefore, in order to get the most out of your new fuel system, it is highly recommended that you seek out a qualified shop to perform dynamic timing on your truck. Use caution! Many shops “time by ear” and do not have the actual equipment. I consider myself to do very well timing by ear, but I have found that I can be as much as 2 degrees off. Factory spec allows for 1 degree of deviation. Get a shop that has a good and valid timing meter for the job! You really can’t substitute the functionality of a good quality tool."
TikiWiki : IDI Fuel Injection Servicing
In closing, a final comment, with regard to pump timing. A properly timed pump can make the difference between a great truck which the owner loves to drive and wants to keep, and a truck that the owner feels he may have wasted his money on. In almost all cases, when the injection pump mark is aligned with the mark provided on the pump gear housing (known as being “static timed”), the pump will be retarded several degrees. The result is a smooth running engine, with very clear exhaust and the owner may find the performance to be satisfactory. However, until the pump is advanced to 8.5 degrees (factory spec) BTDC using the pulse method, the true performance of the engine will not be realized. A properly timed engine (which has been dynamically timed with special equipment) will have significantly more pick up, and much better fuel economy that one that is static timed. It will also smoke a bit more! Therefore, in order to get the most out of your new fuel system, it is highly recommended that you seek out a qualified shop to perform dynamic timing on your truck. Use caution! Many shops “time by ear” and do not have the actual equipment. I consider myself to do very well timing by ear, but I have found that I can be as much as 2 degrees off. Factory spec allows for 1 degree of deviation. Get a shop that has a good and valid timing meter for the job! You really can’t substitute the functionality of a good quality tool."
TikiWiki : IDI Fuel Injection Servicing
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/3...mp-timing.html
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 225
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I forgot to add, I have a pyro. So I went out this morning and tried to turn the fuel up. I worked on it and finally put a vise grip to it and think I got it to turn. Does it make any noise or anything that lets you know that it turned? It is a real bugger to get to turn.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 1
From: On the prairie
If your rig has 180k on it and you replaced the injectors and not the IP, chances are that your timing has retarded since the old IP has to work harder to pop the new injectors. Sometimes changing the injectors without changing the IP or having the timing rechecked can make matters worse.
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 250
Likes: 6
From: new york
It sounds like it could use more fuel, yes they are hard to turn. Make sure you have a good quality allen as you dont want to round out the head. If you can get a quarter turn, thats a huge difference, too much without a turbo, I did that on my old 6.9 and actually lost power.too much fuel puts the fire out but it makes smoke. like an insect fogger.
I have both a banks and naturally asperated and the difference is night and day!
I have both a banks and naturally asperated and the difference is night and day!
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