B20 BIO Deisel
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,212
Likes: 4,215
From: Kaysville Utah
The bio fuels go away around here in the winter months. So it only avalable during the April-Sept time. I did buy a couple of tanks last August and it ran just fine in mine. But it's not something that I ran exclusively or a lot of. And each tank of Bio was diluted by what ever fuel was already in the tank.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,906
Likes: 2,627
From: The Great State of Texas
Understanding the Post-Injection Problem - Biodiesel Magazine
Here's a good read about using bio diesel and how it can compete with ZDDP (anti wear agent) in your engine.
Here's a good read about using bio diesel and how it can compete with ZDDP (anti wear agent) in your engine.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,220
Likes: 62
Understanding the Post-Injection Problem - Biodiesel Magazine
Here's a good read about using bio diesel and how it can compete with ZDDP (anti wear agent) in your engine.
Here's a good read about using bio diesel and how it can compete with ZDDP (anti wear agent) in your engine.
Volkswagen tests using B5 and post-injection showed 45 percent oil dilution after 10,000 miles, but surprisingly no engine damage was evident upon inspection
Cross-Country
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Any updates on this approaching-3-years-old article?
The article was interesting, but lacking any data, or really even much actual information at all, at least of a comparative nature.
Unfortunately, VW has absolutely horrible problems with fuel dilution in general. Nevertheless, one would be very foolish indeed to believe their assertion of how much fuel (bio or not) their engines will tolerate without damage.
The article was interesting, but lacking any data, or really even much actual information at all, at least of a comparative nature.
Unfortunately, VW has absolutely horrible problems with fuel dilution in general. Nevertheless, one would be very foolish indeed to believe their assertion of how much fuel (bio or not) their engines will tolerate without damage.
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,839
Likes: 2
Not much B20 around SE Michigan. None right now. I will stay away from it for some time. I know the dino mix works well and I am not inclined to tempt fate. Just me
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Elder User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 826
Likes: 1
From: The Sunshine State
I saw a station selling B20 a while ago but it wasn't any cheaper then ULSD. Why temp fate if you don't have to. Most of the gas sold around here has a sign stating that it may contain up to 10% ethanol. It is playing havoc with the marine engines causing many breakdowns. Man I hope they don't start messing with the diesel next.
Elder User
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 501
Likes: 1
From: Pacific NW
Green Diesel is the future anyways, Bio has an oxygen atom in its molecular structure ( I believe its classified as an ester?). Green diesel is a pure hydrocarbon fuel made from biomass. I've been in touch with a Helsinki's public transit system, and they run the stuff almost neat, and they have no winter issues with the fuel, apparently the oil company up there (Neste?) can blend the stuff so that it stays a liquid down to -40C or something like that. It's too bad that only a few factories are just now coming on line (In the US).
Last edited by Jus2shy; Dec 5, 2010 at 11:41 PM. Reason: clarified.
Senior User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Biodiesel is a lot more expensive than the regular stuff here in Colorado. Only one gas satation sold it. I think they've pulled it due to Winter's arrival, so it is no longer available until next year (maybe). Not sure if it's worth the extra .35 cents per gallon. I think it was only B5 anyway. About $3.75 for the regular Winter blend here at the moment.
Junior User
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
I miss my 7.3 I could run straight crude oil in it. it ran better with it. the goverment can take there green fuel and shove it. (give the goverment time they will make it the same price as diesel, they did it for the e85. I love my tax dollar going to make it cheap.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 102
Likes: 4
Those of you running bio-diesel need to be careful, or more appropriately, you need to know your fuel. Based on bio-diesel testing data, there's significant variability in the quality of the bio-mass fuels that are showing up around the U.S. Quality not specific to your generally measured water content, cetane, etc. This variability is specific to the Acidic and Formic acid levels that create a very corrosive environment within the fuel system.
Samples have shown 19K PPM or roughly 2% in one worst case measurement. These levels were rechecked over time and levels are still elevated over 7K PPM. Note that when you have this high level of acidic acid, the bio-fuel will have a slight vinegar smell to it. Fuel containing acetic and formic acids is more aggressive in the vapor phase due to vapor pressure differences between acids and the fuel resulting in concentrated acid levels at the top of the fuel tank. Note that this is not just a vehicle specific issue, this same process is affecting the fuel distribution networks as a whole.
There's an effort underway to "enlighten" the fuel manufacturers / distributors of the apparent issue in order to drive towards standards being set in the production/distribution of ULSD to limit these acids. Timing is tbd, I'm sure there's costs involved, acidic acid helps manage water content.
-Paul
Samples have shown 19K PPM or roughly 2% in one worst case measurement. These levels were rechecked over time and levels are still elevated over 7K PPM. Note that when you have this high level of acidic acid, the bio-fuel will have a slight vinegar smell to it. Fuel containing acetic and formic acids is more aggressive in the vapor phase due to vapor pressure differences between acids and the fuel resulting in concentrated acid levels at the top of the fuel tank. Note that this is not just a vehicle specific issue, this same process is affecting the fuel distribution networks as a whole.
There's an effort underway to "enlighten" the fuel manufacturers / distributors of the apparent issue in order to drive towards standards being set in the production/distribution of ULSD to limit these acids. Timing is tbd, I'm sure there's costs involved, acidic acid helps manage water content.
-Paul
Cross-Country
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Good point, Paul. This is a potentially significant issue, just as some of the issues associated with low-concentration bio-diesel are. No one should assume immunity from either of these types of issues, yet neither should anyone automatically declare a fuel source to be either good or bad on this type of basis.
The efforts to refine, more completely define, bio-diesel requirements and specifications (and frankly even ULSD and gasoline fuels) are very important. EPA is forcing a lot of things in recent times that are causing lots of troubles in lots of areas. Fuels of all types are no exception.
The efforts to refine, more completely define, bio-diesel requirements and specifications (and frankly even ULSD and gasoline fuels) are very important. EPA is forcing a lot of things in recent times that are causing lots of troubles in lots of areas. Fuels of all types are no exception.
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