A 20" lock ring or widowmaker rim will weight 50 pounds or more, depending on the rim design and width. I've bought wheels and had them shipped and it's between $40 and $50 shipping each. IMHO it's insane to think about shipping them half way across the country when there's got to be tens of thousands of the things littering the desert southwest.

A widowmaker wheel will work just as well as a lock ring wheel. The centers are the same. You're looking for 5 lug x 8" bolt circle. I'd think too that by finding wheels in the southwest there'd be less rust damage that would have to be dressed up. Sounds like you're doing either a restoration or custom build and would not want rust damaged parts.

I'd start by checking with DVAP in Casa Grande. The DVAP yard in Phx only sells complete vehicles, but the yard in Casa Grande sells parts. When I was down there a couple years ago I learned that the Hidden Valley yard has been moved and down sized (crushed) a lot, so wouldn't bother with them. Then there's got to be local yards in the outlying towns that haven't been swallowed up by the urban expansion and highway work happening in Phx.

If that doesn't work, there's a big yard we learned about in LA from our member Number Dummy (Bill). The name of the place is Southern California Truck Wrecking. The manager's name is Marty and his phone is (323) 587-3144. Bill says to talk to only Marty since he knows up from down.

If that fails I'd look up our member Josh Madsen who lives in the Salt Lake area. He, like me, has rescued a bunch of lock ring 20s and only has about 5 or 6 left unsold. He's offered here to give the left over ones away, but you'd still have shipping and maybe tire removal. But he's relatively close for shipping purposes.

You could also check with Stockton Wheel, Wheel Vintiques, or one of the other CA custom wheel shops. They probably have a yard supply. If not, I know that American Wheel Specialist in Pasco, WA, has a yard supply of widowmakers that they pull centers from to do their custom wheels for Les Schwab. You might call the owner, Juan Murillo, or his son Shaun, to see what they'd do for you. They might even have a shelf supply of centers already pulled. Phone number is (509) 543-9305.

Hopefully you can avoid all this if a member in the Phx area speaks up and has some widowmakers he wants to get rid of. If not, these are some options. Good luck. Stu

 

You are the man, Thanks. With all those options I should find someone who has them.

 

What are you doing with the rims? The Ford Widow Makers are a constant subject of many posts. We're always looking for alternatives.

 

Karas/Stu-I have to say,I agree with Bob Jones in his concerns about widow-maker wheels.I could not, in good conscience recommend them to anyone, and probably would not even help someone,even a fellow FTE member, obtain a set.Most tire places will not touch them,and for good reason.

Now,I used to sell/change/repair a lot of tires,30 or so years ago.I never did one split-rim type wheel - but I almost did, when my boss, the owner of the gas station where I was working, abruptly ran to where I was preparing to break the tire down, pushed me away, and shut me down real quick.He then patiently told me that he'd walked away from a successful small-town tire shop he'd owned for over 20 years, and bought a gas station,after seeing his lead employee have the top half of his skull removed while attempting a tire change on a widow maker.Within a month,he was out of the tire business.


I know that there are relatively safer ways to handle them,if, and only if, you've got proper ,expensive safety equipment.How many on this site have that equipment in their shop?Most tire shops don't even own it.But these remaining split rim wheels are so old as to be dangerous just being on a vehicle,taking into account the age and rust issues.

Every time you tell a man he can't or shouldn't do something risky,he tends to down-play the risks,particularly when he's cheated death in the past.In reality,the odds against him are actually increased.I don't see a boogey man under every rock -for instance,I've never used a respirator while doing brake jobs,though I always knew I should have - but I'd never help anyone do something so dangerous as obtaining widow-makers.A bit dramatic?Maybe.The best thing is to trash those wheels,spend a few dollars on proper replacements.

 

Hold on. The man said he wants only the centers. Doesn't care if they have rings and rims attached or not. My assumption, therefore, is he's gonna try, like others have tried, to remount them in new tubeless Dayton style 22.5" outer rims or in new 20" lock ring rims like is done at American Wheel Specialist. He didn't ask anybody to sell him widowmakers. The way the question was asked, it won't matter whether the centers come from lock ring style or widowmakers. The wheel pictured is an "RH" lock ring style. I mentioned Josh's left over lock ring wheels in my first post because that's probably what he has left over from the auction haul he made.

And you've got to agree that not many others on here are more outspoken than me about the dangers of widowmakers. I'm not gonna facilitate somebody hurting themselves or others if I can avoid it.

So, that said, having slept on this there's more that Karas needs to know before he goes buying wheel centers. First, he needs to watch out for the mounting system of the wheel centers he finds. The wheel he pictured is "stud piloted" as was used on most old Fords. But there were other wheels having the 5 lug x 8" bolt circle that were "hub piloted". GMCs of the 1940s, Studebakers of the 1950s, and Fords of the 1960s used this bolt pattern in a hub piloted mount. Their lug holes will be flat with no chamfer. The stud piloted center hole on our old Fords will be 5 7/8" wide while the hub piloted center hole will be bigger or smaller depending upon the donor vehicle. Here are pictures of hub piloted wheels having this bolt pattern. Note the lug nuts have floating washers behind the nut. That's a sign of a hub piloted wheel. First is a Studebaker, both front and rear, then an old GMC wheel.





The other thing to notice in these wheels is the number of hand holes. These hub piloted wheels are Motor Wheel "Spoksteel" brand wheels and have either six or eight hand holes. A stud piloted Budd wheel, as Karas first posted, will have five hand holes. Another thing to watch for, though, is that Motor Wheel Corporation also made stud piloted wheels. Here's one of mine that is such an oddball.



The last thing I can think to watch for is the bolt pattern itself. Some very early Budd style wheels, as used on the 1933 and earlier Ford AAs and Dodge Bros. trucks, had five lug x 6 7/8" bolt patterns. They'll look similar, but will have much less dish and the smaller bolt circle. Hope that covers it. Stu

 

Thanks for sticking up for me Stu. I'm going to mount these in modern 20" steel rings and run light truck radials on my 62 f100 project. I'll post some pics when done. I need 5 or 6 so I have a couple extra to experiment with offset, etc. Don't worry about me trying to use them and getting hurt I wouldn't dream of that. I have a vision in my mind what they will look like. I have a photoshopped version I will post when I get a chance.

 

double post

 

Karas,my apologies to you both.As always,I missed out- again - on the fact you wanted these to build replacement wheels.I realize all the problems you guys with those "older" trucks go through just trying to keep your vehicles on the road,for want of a set of wheels.I'm just a little paranoid about safety,if guys aren't aware of the inherent dangers.I see that's not a problem in this situation,sorry for my misunderstanding.

 

I doubt that you are interested in my rims now, but if you are let me know.

 

I may be still interested, if i can't find any locally, I'll let you know.


Here is my photoshop of what the truck will look like when I'm finished.




[IMG]<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/karaskustoms/5233002893/" title="Karas Photochop by KarasKustoms, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5289/5233002893_4390999256.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Karas Photochop" /></a>[/IMG]

 

Stu's right on, on the shipping cost's of the complete wheels, I sold a pair of good lockring 20" wheels a while back and they weighed about 59lbs each and should fit in a 24x24x11" box.

I had a few leftover Non widowmaker wheels a couple of weeks ago that I did offer to anyone in need for free but they are gone now as of last week,
I do however have 5 widow maker wheels that are coming off my F6 truck, they are yours if you want them. otherwise they WILL end up in the recycle.
But also Like Stu mentioned if you start looking around I'll bet you'll find plenty of options that are hopefully close to you, check with your local tire shops and ask where to find older or big truck yards and maybe you'll find something.

Cheers and Good Luck

Josh

 

Howdy,

I have 4 of those old "widow-makers" left.

I'll take them to the scrap place along with other steel & iron I have.

There's another problem with them .... the lug-holes on old rusty wheels can be very worn out!

The tapered part of the holes where the lug nuts tighten down can be nearly paper thin rendering them useless.

Check them carefully !


Cheers,


Rick

 

Looks to me like the old stock stud holes are gonna be welded up and new ones redrilled to a 5 x 5.5" pattern. If that's true, it won't matter whether you find stud piloted or hub piloted centers like I warned about, or trashed out stud holes like Rick warns about.

That's a sweet unibody they'll go on. Looks to be original and rust free, as is so critical on them, but still with the patina of age to give it character. Your wheel idea is unique, and I hope you can pull it off. I'm dumb on those tires and rims, though. What's the profile on those tires, maybe a 35 or similar? Stu

 

Stu,

I'm going to make adapters to fit to the large lug pattern, I want that look, kind of like an "old school" lowered big truck. The rear I'm going to set the center back in the wheel more so it looks like a dished wheel. I own a machine shop, so that is why this project is feasible for me.

Josh,
I may look you up if I can't find any here, any Idea what they would weigh without the outer section, just the back half, The part with the hand holes, I'm not really sure which side is which?

 

I would guess maybe about a third + of the total weight??

I suppose I could torch of the outer peices if I can find some more time.