GPR, GP's, Return Lines
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GPR, GP's, Return Lines
RE: '94 (5/94) F250 7.3l IDI Turbo (AT190F) 229K; No. Colorado (cold here lately!)
I'm going to document what I've done even though my questions don't require it, because I got a lot of help from reading what other people have done w/ similar situations.
I've had this truck about 9 years; had new gp's installed when I bought it. About 3 yrs ago the gpc failed, so I bypassed it with a dash switch. I think I've also replaced the gpr before.
It has started a little harder.. w/ a little white smoke on cold days, but always has started. Two days ago, it didn't, and I noticed that the voltmeter on the dash wasn't moving a bit when I engaged the dash switch, but I was getting the wts light. I only have a cheap meter, and when I cked the gpr.. I was surprised to find that both main posts were hot w/ 12v just w/ the key on.. no dash button pushed and no wts light. Oddly, it still clicked when pushing the dash button.
I thought maybe something happened inside the controller.. even though it's bypassed (still has several wires out to the relay) that causes the circuit to close whenever the key is on.. and it fried all the gp's. I did some research here and built a circuit tester w/ an 12v bulb, and couldn't get a response after testing several gp's by shorting the tips to the battery hot.
So.. I figured I'd tackle them myself this time, and do the fuel return lines at the same time (they've been leaking bad). I pulled the intake and air cleaner off the turbo, including the "collar" into the turbine. I cracked the injectors and pulled the return lines and caps. I removed the caps from the gp's and carefully pulled the wiring out to the front. I removed the gpc bolts and just pulled it off to the side and tucked it out of the way.
Was able to remove all gp's w/ nothing more than a 1/4" drive 3/8" deepwell and a few extensions. I set the first couple cylinders tdc.. (boy, that took some research here) but the gp's were so clean I didn't bother on the rest. Probably was made easier by the fact that the gp's were marked beru and every one pulled out almost clean.. nothing more than a bit of carbon and not one required any force for removal. I tried to "light" several again by direct connection w/ the battery. Not a hint of activity.
I considered going w/ wellman gp's because of their claims for higher heat.. but after seeing these come out so clean and reading the horror stories.. I stayed w/ the m/b zd9's, and have them on order.
One problem I encountered was that several of the gp caps fractured when I pulled them off, and a couple others are brittle. Was thinking I'd have to change out the whole harness.. but found a post here (I think from Dave S.) saying to just use two thicknesses of heat shrink tubing around the metal contact. What a great idea. I'm going to put the caps on a gp when I do it so I know how long and so it will size to the gp.
I'm not real sure what to do about the gpc.. whether I should just get a relay and keep it dash wired, or try to get the whole controller. Will probably stay w/ the relay to save $. I saw a post that I can't find now.. suggesting an earlier model gpr; that it will work as well and be less expensive. Couldn't find it when I went back to look for it. Think it referred to one for an '86 F350.
Here's my biggest problem.. the return lines. I've looked at kits and read, and almost got a cheap one til I read some posts here.. and then went back and looked at mine to make sure what I was buying had all the parts I needed. Idecided to go w/ a dipaco kit, but I'm still a little unsure if I have the right one. My truck has a line from the fuel filter/separator to cyl 1, then that goes to 3, 5, 7, but from 7 a line goes across to cyl 6 into a 3 way tee. Then cyl 2 has a line into the injector pump and cyl 8 has a line that goes into something that heads down toward the back of the engine. I found a kit (DPE73120T) that includes 2 3 way tees and a "one way" tee.
Any help on the right return line kit and where to get it, and what might be going on w/ respect to the gpc and gpr, and how to diagnose/correct it would be much appreciated. Thanks for all the help I got here, mostly to those of you more seasoned truckers, incl. Dave S. and the guy from Canada (eh?).
I'm going to document what I've done even though my questions don't require it, because I got a lot of help from reading what other people have done w/ similar situations.
I've had this truck about 9 years; had new gp's installed when I bought it. About 3 yrs ago the gpc failed, so I bypassed it with a dash switch. I think I've also replaced the gpr before.
It has started a little harder.. w/ a little white smoke on cold days, but always has started. Two days ago, it didn't, and I noticed that the voltmeter on the dash wasn't moving a bit when I engaged the dash switch, but I was getting the wts light. I only have a cheap meter, and when I cked the gpr.. I was surprised to find that both main posts were hot w/ 12v just w/ the key on.. no dash button pushed and no wts light. Oddly, it still clicked when pushing the dash button.
I thought maybe something happened inside the controller.. even though it's bypassed (still has several wires out to the relay) that causes the circuit to close whenever the key is on.. and it fried all the gp's. I did some research here and built a circuit tester w/ an 12v bulb, and couldn't get a response after testing several gp's by shorting the tips to the battery hot.
So.. I figured I'd tackle them myself this time, and do the fuel return lines at the same time (they've been leaking bad). I pulled the intake and air cleaner off the turbo, including the "collar" into the turbine. I cracked the injectors and pulled the return lines and caps. I removed the caps from the gp's and carefully pulled the wiring out to the front. I removed the gpc bolts and just pulled it off to the side and tucked it out of the way.
Was able to remove all gp's w/ nothing more than a 1/4" drive 3/8" deepwell and a few extensions. I set the first couple cylinders tdc.. (boy, that took some research here) but the gp's were so clean I didn't bother on the rest. Probably was made easier by the fact that the gp's were marked beru and every one pulled out almost clean.. nothing more than a bit of carbon and not one required any force for removal. I tried to "light" several again by direct connection w/ the battery. Not a hint of activity.
I considered going w/ wellman gp's because of their claims for higher heat.. but after seeing these come out so clean and reading the horror stories.. I stayed w/ the m/b zd9's, and have them on order.
One problem I encountered was that several of the gp caps fractured when I pulled them off, and a couple others are brittle. Was thinking I'd have to change out the whole harness.. but found a post here (I think from Dave S.) saying to just use two thicknesses of heat shrink tubing around the metal contact. What a great idea. I'm going to put the caps on a gp when I do it so I know how long and so it will size to the gp.
I'm not real sure what to do about the gpc.. whether I should just get a relay and keep it dash wired, or try to get the whole controller. Will probably stay w/ the relay to save $. I saw a post that I can't find now.. suggesting an earlier model gpr; that it will work as well and be less expensive. Couldn't find it when I went back to look for it. Think it referred to one for an '86 F350.
Here's my biggest problem.. the return lines. I've looked at kits and read, and almost got a cheap one til I read some posts here.. and then went back and looked at mine to make sure what I was buying had all the parts I needed. Idecided to go w/ a dipaco kit, but I'm still a little unsure if I have the right one. My truck has a line from the fuel filter/separator to cyl 1, then that goes to 3, 5, 7, but from 7 a line goes across to cyl 6 into a 3 way tee. Then cyl 2 has a line into the injector pump and cyl 8 has a line that goes into something that heads down toward the back of the engine. I found a kit (DPE73120T) that includes 2 3 way tees and a "one way" tee.
Any help on the right return line kit and where to get it, and what might be going on w/ respect to the gpc and gpr, and how to diagnose/correct it would be much appreciated. Thanks for all the help I got here, mostly to those of you more seasoned truckers, incl. Dave S. and the guy from Canada (eh?).
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,322
Likes: 2
From: Dairy, OR
I've had this truck about 9 years; had new gp's installed when I bought it. About 3 yrs ago the gpc failed, so I bypassed it with a dash switch. I think I've also replaced the gpr before.
When you say the controller failed are you sure it was the controller or just the relay on the controller? Do you happen to remember what symptoms caused you to believe it was a bad gpc?
It has started a little harder.. w/ a little white smoke on cold days, but always has started. Two days ago, it didn't, and I noticed that the voltmeter on the dash wasn't moving a bit when I engaged the dash switch, but I was getting the wts light. I only have a cheap meter, and when I cked the gpr.. I was surprised to find that both main posts were hot w/ 12v just w/ the key on.. no dash button pushed and no wts light. Oddly, it still clicked when pushing the dash button.
Have you checked all your battery connections to make sure you are getting proper voltage to the gpc?
I considered going w/ wellman gp's because of their claims for higher heat.. but after seeing these come out so clean and reading the horror stories.. I stayed w/ the m/b zd9's, and have them on order.
One problem I encountered was that several of the gp caps fractured when I pulled them off, and a couple others are brittle. Was thinking I'd have to change out the whole harness.. but found a post here (I think from Dave S.) saying to just use two thicknesses of heat shrink tubing around the metal contact. What a great idea.
The crimp on connectors fit perfectly over the gp tips, for my application I took the insulation off the crimp ons and soldered the wires directly then put insulation back on and sealed with heat shrink.
I'm going to put the caps on a gp when I do it so I know how long and so it will size to the gp.
I'm not real sure what to do about the gpc.. whether I should just get a relay and keep it dash wired, or try to get the whole controller. Will probably stay w/ the relay to save $. I saw a post that I can't find now.. suggesting an earlier model gpr; that it will work as well and be less expensive. Couldn't find it when I went back to look for it. Think it referred to one for an '86 F350.
I'm not real sure what to do about the gpc.. whether I should just get a relay and keep it dash wired, or try to get the whole controller. Will probably stay w/ the relay to save $. I saw a post that I can't find now.. suggesting an earlier model gpr; that it will work as well and be less expensive. Couldn't find it when I went back to look for it. Think it referred to one for an '86 F350.
Here's my biggest problem.. the return lines. I've looked at kits and read, and almost got a cheap one til I read some posts here.. and then went back and looked at mine to make sure what I was buying had all the parts I needed. Idecided to go w/ a dipaco kit, but I'm still a little unsure if I have the right one. My truck has a line from the fuel filter/separator to cyl 1, then that goes to 3, 5, 7, but from 7 a line goes across to cyl 6 into a 3 way tee. Then cyl 2 has a line into the injector pump and cyl 8 has a line that goes into something that heads down toward the back of the engine. I found a kit (DPE73120T) that includes 2 3 way tees and a "one way" tee.
I bought my kit from Pensacola diesel and then upgraded the orings to Vitons from McMaster Carr. There to my knowledge is only two kits... one goes up to 1989 and the other is 1989 to 1994. You want that kit of course.
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As far as back when I bypassed the controller, I just remember that I wasn't getting any voltage to the gp's when turning the key on.. so I bypassed it. I'm assuming the gpr must have been okay because it worked fine thereafter.
I only have a cheap meter (harbor freight).. and the battery was a little low from cranking and I had it on the charger. First time I cked, it was 11 to both posts on the gpr.. a little later after more charging, they both cked 12v. Battery connections look good to the eye.
What's a BWD (w/ respect to the controller)?
There are at least 3 return line kits I've found. Two that contain 4 straight and 4 right angle caps, one offset and one centered into the caps.. then the one I referenced w/ the two 3 way tees.
Thanks for your reply.. any way you know of testing out the gpc in bypassed condition? Is it possible for the controller to still impair function even when it's bypassed as it is (I'm thinking so.. and after your comments, thinking I should go ahead w/ the whole new controller).
Thanks again!
I only have a cheap meter (harbor freight).. and the battery was a little low from cranking and I had it on the charger. First time I cked, it was 11 to both posts on the gpr.. a little later after more charging, they both cked 12v. Battery connections look good to the eye.
What's a BWD (w/ respect to the controller)?
There are at least 3 return line kits I've found. Two that contain 4 straight and 4 right angle caps, one offset and one centered into the caps.. then the one I referenced w/ the two 3 way tees.
Thanks for your reply.. any way you know of testing out the gpc in bypassed condition? Is it possible for the controller to still impair function even when it's bypassed as it is (I'm thinking so.. and after your comments, thinking I should go ahead w/ the whole new controller).
Thanks again!
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,322
Likes: 2
From: Dairy, OR
As far as back when I bypassed the controller, I just remember that I wasn't getting any voltage to the gp's when turning the key on.. so I bypassed it. I'm assuming the gpr must have been okay because it worked fine thereafter.
I only have a cheap meter (harbor freight).. and the battery was a little low from cranking and I had it on the charger. First time I cked, it was 11 to both posts on the gpr.. a little later after more charging, they both cked 12v. Battery connections look good to the eye.
What's a BWD (w/ respect to the controller)?
There are at least 3 return line kits I've found. Two that contain 4 straight and 4 right angle caps, one offset and one centered into the caps.. then the one I referenced w/ the two 3 way tees.
Thanks for your reply.. any way you know of testing out the gpc in bypassed condition? Is it possible for the controller to still impair function even when it's bypassed as it is (I'm thinking so.. and after your comments, thinking I should go ahead w/ the whole new controller).
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 419
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From: Timmins, Ontario, Canada
There are three return line styles...
The earlier and later styles as you mentioned; there is also the factory turbo style kit where there are the two 3-way tees that allow the return lines to cross over in front of the intake rather than under the turbo where the N/A style would cross. It was done to protect the lines from turbo heat.
These return lines were made only for one year of trucks (just the factory turbos) so I'm surprised you found some! I looked and couldnt find any. I've since read on here several people have kept the N/A style (just buy the kit for the later non-turbo models) to improve return fuel flow with no heat problems. I'll be doing this in a week as well, its just easier that way!
For the harness, don't replace it! Buy the bullet conenctors (get them at any auto parts store) and just solder them in place of the originals. Very quick, easy and proper fix.
The earlier and later styles as you mentioned; there is also the factory turbo style kit where there are the two 3-way tees that allow the return lines to cross over in front of the intake rather than under the turbo where the N/A style would cross. It was done to protect the lines from turbo heat.
These return lines were made only for one year of trucks (just the factory turbos) so I'm surprised you found some! I looked and couldnt find any. I've since read on here several people have kept the N/A style (just buy the kit for the later non-turbo models) to improve return fuel flow with no heat problems. I'll be doing this in a week as well, its just easier that way!
For the harness, don't replace it! Buy the bullet conenctors (get them at any auto parts store) and just solder them in place of the originals. Very quick, easy and proper fix.
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