What gas would you recomend for my 52 F2. I rebuilt the motor complete with new pistons, Cam valve train with adjustable lifters and hardened seats. My understanding is that with the hardened seats unleaded fuel works fine. My thoughts are that the lower octane gas in my are has all kinds of detergents and crap that im not real interested in introducing to my motor. The 91 octane is clean non oxygenated fuel but Im not sure the effects of the higher octane. I am extremely happy with the way this girl runs I just want to treat her right.
YouTube - 1952 Ford F2 after rebuild

 

It will run fine on any kind of gas you feed it. Gas nowadays is much better than back in the day, those detergents, MBTE, alcohol, etc., notwithstanding. If you have stock CR or less than say 9:1, and your cooling system is working right, just run Regular. It's only 86 octane in the high country, and I never have any problems with it. Make sure your jetting is not rich.

PS -- please put your location in your Profile so we know where you are. I'm thinking you must be in Canada if the 91 octane doesn't have oxygenators?
Edit: Minnesota, huh. There should still be alcohol or MBTE in your Premium up there.

 

They keep one pump at most stations in north western MN at 91 octane and has a lable that says non oxygenated for use in off road vehicles only. Lots of Sleds and ATV's in these parts.

 

I avoid ethanol in every motor I have. In WI that means I have to use premium and still be careful. All the regular and mid-grade around me has ethanol in it.
If I could find non-ethanol regular gas, thats what I'd put in my 53.

 

Interesting, the "off-road" designation must exempt them from the federal mandates. I haven't seen any of them around here. I haven't had any problems with the alky but if I could get regular without it, I would.

They used to have pumps here in the '60's for White Gas, do they do that up there? for coleman stoves etc.

 

Do they color the off road gas like they do diesel? If it's like WI they color the diesel so if you're pulled over they can tell what you're using, it's all got to do with taxes, off or is non taxed.

I run the crappy SE WI formulated gas in my trucks, this is the crappiest of crap gas you can find, and my trucks seem to run OK. The only problem I think I might have had is the fuel pump in my F-2. I just had to replace it, it leaked like a sieve and when I pulled it off I found a bunch of rubbery gasket material floating around.

In a newly rebuilt engine I'd be more concerned about break in with the newer oil without the additives. There's a lot of talk how it tends to allow the cams or solid lifters fail fairly quickly after a fresh rebuilt. I'm not an engine expert and don't remember what the additive they've taken out on behest the government regulations, but I think it is zinc.

We really need to abolish the EPA, hopefully we can do something with it in the next two years.

 

I've never really thought much about what kind of fuel I run other than octane rating and ethanol content. Can someone expound upon oxygenated fuels? What affect do they have and why do you not want to run them? I do know that I ran right through the middle of the heartland on my trips to Sturgis and most of the fuel had a high ethanol content. I was a little concerned at first, but the Harley didn't seem to mind and my fuel mileage actually seemed to improve.

I do pay a lot more attention to oils, though. The slippery stuff that the government had stripped out is ZDDP - or essentially zinc. After researching this endlessly, it appears that the diesel oils like Rotella aren't even a safe bet anymore for adequate ZDDP content. I've started keeping a product called ZDDPlus on the shelf in the shop for my older flat tappet stuff. It's not very expensive and it's one of the better additives on the market. One small bottle dumped in at oil change time along with whatever off-the-shelf oil you prefer restores proper ZDDP levels and keeps your flat tappet cam happy. The only problem with it is that it isn't available anywhere besides mail order and some speed shops. There are a few online vendors that carry it and it's all over eBay as well. I usually shop for a good package deal on eBay for 5 bottles. I've built 3 flat tappet engines in the last few years and had no cam trouble at all - and 2 of those had stiff springs and aggressive lobe designs. I've used ZDDPlus in all of them since day one. While I haven't ever lost a cam, I know several guys who have and none of them were using ZDDP additives. I'm sold on the stuff.

 

Alcohol is an oxygenator, so is MBTE, and there are some others. The feds mandated 10% alky as an alternative fuel, but apparently only for highway use, as a gift to the Big Farm lobbyists. The EPA or DOT, I forget which, just decided (for no apparent reason) to bump it to 15%, which could be a problem for older non-EFI engines, maybe even some EFI systems. All kinds of folks are fighting the new rule. If they keep this up I'm going to convert to CNG!

Alky burns cooler than gas, which is good, but it has much less energy, so you have to burn more of it for the same power. So re-jetting might be necessary. Alky also absorbs water in storage, and is corrosive to some metals, including old plain steel gas tanks.

 

stay away from ethanol. That flathead does not like that crap! ethanol will eat up your seals in the fuel pump, carb, and fuel lines. Also an experiment was done with ethanol. A guy put ethanol in a new tank, and let it set ( i forget how long). It rusted the inside of the tank, because alcohol absorbs moisture, so this is another reason to try to stay away from it. What I do is put 93 octane in my truck, and it gets much better fuel mileage. I also put 1/2 a gallon of diesel in my tank, This lubes the engine and keeps things real clean. It also helps with vapor lock.

 

E10 will not hurt a thing.

E15 is another story but right now it's not available and it appears that stations will offer both if it ever is produced. EPA only approved it. They didn't mandate it (yet) It is a VERY political football.........

There are some places that ONLY sell E10....... like the entire west coast.

Some stations in the Midwest have fuel pumps that are marked for "Offroad", Marine engine, etc.....that supposedly do not have ethanol in the fuel. but I wouldn't believe them. To determine if the gas you use is ethanol "FREE", use a simple test kit like the following: Order Ethanol Alcohol Fuel Test Kit for marine and boat engine use.

The only sure way to know you're going to avoid ethanol is to go to your local airport and buy Avgas. (tell them it's for your homebuilt aircraft or offroad vehicle.....)

I don't know what you're "lubing" by putting diesel in the gasoline..... Diesel is not a detergent, and it lowers the octane number of gasoline, putting you at greater risk for detonation if you run the engine at high power settings (like climbing a hill loaded)

It also will cause spark plug and combustion chamber fouling.

Vapor lock is not the problem of yesteryear because todays gasoline has a MUCH lower vapor pressure (around 7psi in Ca and other metro areas) and only rises slightly in the winter time.....

If you can get non-oxygenated gas easily, run it. It's unlikely you're going to notice much difference in a stock flathead or any older engine.....


Regards,


Rick

 

There is so much wrong with ethanol blended gas. First, the crap blend we have here in SE WI cuts you mileage by at least a 1/6th. I've filled up here and drove to IA and MN on many different occasions and have gotten to my destinations and have had to fill up. Once filled up with gas from those locations I was able to come back home and got to work for 3-4 days before having to refuel.

Second, it's a very energy consumptive fuel to product. You need to use heavy fuel guzzling trucks and farm machinery to get the corn seed to the field and plant it. Then the same equipment to harvest it. Then, as others have said, it absorbs moisture which deteriorates the metal containers that store it so it can't be moved through conventional under ground fuel pipe line and has to be trucked, another use of heavy trucks, which is a lot more expensive than flushing it through a pipe.

Third, it's production drives up the cost of food for everyone because the crops used are using resources normally used to produce food for us and the animals we eat.

If it wasn't subsidized by the government it would cost 3 times the the price of real gas. And if the politicians weren't being bought off by the big agricultural companies and ethanol plant operators we would all know.

My wife's family are all farmers. They were all flipping cart wheels when this crap all started. When they took their first corn crops into the mills at harvest time they were getting 2-3 the price they normally had gotten in previous years. They were happy as pigs in slop-until the following planting season came along and the price for their seed corn went up 2-3 times and the fuel to put it in the ground went up 50%, then it hit hit them. Then they went back to crying mode.

We really have to get rid of the EPA, and all the damn tree huggers that supports it.

 

Interesting that a fillup in IA would give you better mileage; when I've been thru there there was almost nothing but E10 and even E85, way before it became widespread. You can guess why, IA grows a LOT of corn. I suspect it may be that it's more downhill than you'd guess going west to east, and probably with the wind.

I'm with Rick, I can't see a real day-to-day difference with E10. But I am also running an electric pump, have a lined gas tank, and coated fuel lines.

But I agree with Bob, I'm not interested in paying any more subsidies.

 

Ross, I don't know the reason for the differences in gas mileage. I know we in the Milwaukee area have a different formulated fuel that that in IA and MN. Some time back we were accused of causing pollution Chicago by the great brains at the EPA so we had fix our ways by burning a special blend which costs more than most. They said our pollution gets blown down the Chi Town.

I am sure of the difference in mileage because I have noticed it for the last 15 plus years. My brother lived in Iowa City for 4-5 years. We'd go to visit him 3-4 times a year and when he'd come back for a visit he noticed the same. I've taken quite a few trips during the same period to MN and had the same experience. In that time I've had 3 different trucks and my wife 2 and they all did the same. Whenever I travel to either state I leave home with the least amount of gas I think I need to make it over the state line and fill up when I get there.

 

I have never noticed a difference in mileage though. Since E10 has only about 5% less BTU per gallon I would think the mileage difference would be less than 16% (1/6)
The only real way to determine would be to put 2 identical engines on a dyno and measure the specific fuel consumption.



I have to say that I absolutely agree with Bob on all of the above!!!

 

I know down here in Dixie we only experience what you are talking about in the winter. Our formulas change as the temps go down. Every car I have (even the diesel F350) gets noticeably worse mileage in the winter. I can't notice any difference in performance, but I have had problems with gas sitting in our old boat over the winter. I thought that Stabil and the 2 cycle oil would help it, but I would have to pour out the gas every spring. Several fishing outings were spoiled because I was sure that everything I had done in the fall would work, but I couldn't get the boat to run very good or even crank once.

This discussion might explain why the only time in my 54's history that I was driving it to work was one very cold winter. I was getting about 8 MPG out of a 239 Y block at 55 MPH.