injector cups
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 3
From: Asheville-where weird is
I guess that one question would be do you flush the cooling system first or rebuild the oil cooler first. Catch 22 here. If the oil leak is bad enough you mess up the new/rebuilt cooler. As bad as that looks I would go with a thorough flush first and then deal with the cooler and hope for the best.
This is the dilemma within the Catch 22. If the oil leak into the coolant is bad enough and you flush first prior to the oil cooler rebuild, then you have negated the flush. You are also increasing the chance that water is going to migrate into the oil...will it be the next time the engine is run or 100 times from now? IDK
Right now, the seals are keeping 14 psi of coolant contained and the 30-60 psi of oil coming from the low pressure oil pump is able to overcome that seal. Once it deteriorates a bit more, that 14 psi may be able to overcome the seal due to the coolant remaining pressurized long after the oil pressure has dissipated at engine shutdown. At that point, coolant migrates into the oil.
Flushing the system at either time will flush the oil cooler simultaneously.
Those are my thoughts. What say you?
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
I guess that one question would be do you flush the cooling system first or rebuild the oil cooler first. Catch 22 here. If the oil leak is bad enough you mess up the new/rebuilt cooler. As bad as that looks I would go with a thorough flush first and then deal with the cooler and hope for the best.
You have to drain the coolant to do the seals anyway because the cooler sits so low on the engine. So it makes sense to do them together.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
I have done all of the above at one point or another - on more than one truck.
That black popping out of the bottle really concerns me, as much as the flocculated oil/coolant mix. That could be raw unchanged oil - or it could be soot. To play it very safe, I would buy a full set of injector O-rings and remove the injectors. The O-rings are due for a swap anyway. Service the oil cooler - this is good maintenance practice as well. Once the cooing system and oil system is back in one piece, perform a thorough pressure test on the cooling system with AIR (not coolant). Spray the injector cups with silicone spray while the coolant system is charged to 15 PSI. If all is well, then you have confidence with everything and you avoid the woes of tired injector O-rings. If you have bubbles in the cup(s), you'll be very glad you conducted the cup test.
That black popping out of the bottle really concerns me, as much as the flocculated oil/coolant mix. That could be raw unchanged oil - or it could be soot. To play it very safe, I would buy a full set of injector O-rings and remove the injectors. The O-rings are due for a swap anyway. Service the oil cooler - this is good maintenance practice as well. Once the cooing system and oil system is back in one piece, perform a thorough pressure test on the cooling system with AIR (not coolant). Spray the injector cups with silicone spray while the coolant system is charged to 15 PSI. If all is well, then you have confidence with everything and you avoid the woes of tired injector O-rings. If you have bubbles in the cup(s), you'll be very glad you conducted the cup test.
New User
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
update, I stopped by a local repair shop, he said it smelt like diesel fuel to him, so over the weekend. I flushed the coolant system with cascade, as recommended by a local repair shop and this forum. After running and giving it a good flush, I still have a slight ring of white in the water. This pic shows the separation a day later of about a half gallon of water I drained before stopping the flush. Does fuel do this? I have never dealt with this shop before, not many diesel shops around here to choose from. Looking for some more direction. Thanks again for all yalls help.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
Cascade? Where did you read that on this forum? You were advised to follow Gooch's coolant flush procedure and it doesn't say anything about putting dish detergent in your cooling system.
I would keep flushing it out with water until you get all the soap out.
I would keep flushing it out with water until you get all the soap out.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
update, I stopped by a local repair shop, he said it smelt like diesel fuel to him, so over the weekend. I flushed the coolant system with cascade, as recommended by a local repair shop and this forum. After running and giving it a good flush, I still have a slight ring of white in the water. This pic shows the separation a day later of about a half gallon of water I drained before stopping the flush. Does fuel do this? I have never dealt with this shop before, not many diesel shops around here to choose from. Looking for some more direction. Thanks again for all yalls help.
Touch's coolant flush procedure should get you in the right direction. If there is not a risk of freezing, it would almost be worth continuing to flush and drive (add thermostat if driving) until salt content drop out. Can get test strips that check hardness of water and,salts content
New User
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 13
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"Obviously, you need to flush your system. A good liquid "dishwasher" detergent would be very helpful at removing the oil from the system. You should probably rebuild the cooler first. "
Above, from an earlier post. I did flush the system with clean water for about 2 hours after the cascade flush. There was not any soap left in system. The white residue is greasy.
Above, from an earlier post. I did flush the system with clean water for about 2 hours after the cascade flush. There was not any soap left in system. The white residue is greasy.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,399
Likes: 188
From: Norco,CA
Did you fix anything else in the system? Did you flush the heater as well? I know when I
flush I leave the hose connected and let it run a while. But if you did this nows the time to at least fix the oil cooler and reflush. Then test the system with 15 psi and see if it holds.
flush I leave the hose connected and let it run a while. But if you did this nows the time to at least fix the oil cooler and reflush. Then test the system with 15 psi and see if it holds.
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
Cascade dishwasher soap has a thumbs-up from many sources, including CAT mechanics. Cascade has a special formula that is the least harmful to our rigs, much like Ivory is about the only real "soap" left on the market for our hands, and Dawn is the best parts degreaser when using water to clean.
I still say drain the coolant, remove the injectors, and pressure test with air. No harm will come from air - plenty of expensive carnage comes with coolant in the wrong places.
I still say drain the coolant, remove the injectors, and pressure test with air. No harm will come from air - plenty of expensive carnage comes with coolant in the wrong places.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 3
From: Asheville-where weird is
As Rich said, "Cascade" comes highly recommended. I used it on my engine after I lost two injector cups. That was a few years and 120k miles ago. I did use the "Advanced" search option and searched specifically for "Cascade" in the 7.3L section prior to using the tip. It returned close to 50 results that were tied to leaking oil coolers and cracked injectors cups back then if memory serves me correctly. There is at least one more result now...
As Bonanza35 stated, you'll have to flush your heater core as well. All of us would like to know if you have rebuilt the oil cooler yet at a minimum. Sooner or later you'll have to. It is an eventuality. I promise. Now would be a great time.
Rich's test is the best way to know if the cups are viable or not.
No, fuel does not do that. You will see a definitive line in degas bottle when it gets bad enough. Diesel should be on top and you will definitely know what it is. Until then you'll see small drops of fuel and soot will continue to build.
As Bonanza35 stated, you'll have to flush your heater core as well. All of us would like to know if you have rebuilt the oil cooler yet at a minimum. Sooner or later you'll have to. It is an eventuality. I promise. Now would be a great time.
Rich's test is the best way to know if the cups are viable or not.
No, fuel does not do that. You will see a definitive line in degas bottle when it gets bad enough. Diesel should be on top and you will definitely know what it is. Until then you'll see small drops of fuel and soot will continue to build.
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 29,380
Likes: 118
From: Central Coast of CA
Cascade is one of those "common knowledge" things if you hang out in the 6.0L PSD forum.
Because oil cooler failures are not uncommon for that line, if you do a quick search over there you would get a ton of returns.
Cascade does a great job of cleaning out the coolant system and passages of oil contamination.
Stewart
Because oil cooler failures are not uncommon for that line, if you do a quick search over there you would get a ton of returns.
Cascade does a great job of cleaning out the coolant system and passages of oil contamination.
Stewart
New User
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
sorry fello's, I have bought the oring kit for the oil cooler(have not installed yet) I have been monitoring the oil and water. The water is smelling more like fuel. With 12 hour work days, 4 kids (and sports), and mini farm to keep up, ( to old to pull all nighter )I am going to have to take to the shop the end of this week or beginning of next. Hoping it is only the injector cups. My plans are changing all the hoses, thermostat, dagas tank, replace oil cooler orings and gaskets, flush again, change oil, change change coolant.
With 208k miles,(never been changed) should I go ahead and change the water pump while there? Does anyone see anything wrong with the plan above? Thanks to all on the forum, this has been the best forum I have joined yet.
With 208k miles,(never been changed) should I go ahead and change the water pump while there? Does anyone see anything wrong with the plan above? Thanks to all on the forum, this has been the best forum I have joined yet.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 17
From: Jacksonville, FL
My water pump has just gone at about the same mileage. Not saying yours will also, but while you have the system drained for the oil cooler, it may be prudent. If you do this with new hoses (get the dual alternator top hose that goes around the serpentine belt) and thermostat then hopefully you won't have to touch your coolant system for a good while.
You may want to look into the ELC coolant while you are at it also.....
(I can't see if you have a signature stating your truck year, but as long as it is not a 99 model you should be good to do the switch)
You may want to look into the ELC coolant while you are at it also.....
(I can't see if you have a signature stating your truck year, but as long as it is not a 99 model you should be good to do the switch)
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,910
Likes: 2
From: Hat Creek Ca
You may want to look into the ELC coolant while you are at it also.....
__________________________________________________ ______________________
If you decide to go this route be sure that you get the CAT EC-1 rated coolant. There is plane ELC and there is an EC-1 rated ELC. You want the EC-1 rating so that you do not need to bothe with the test strips and additives.
__________________________________________________ ______________________
If you decide to go this route be sure that you get the CAT EC-1 rated coolant. There is plane ELC and there is an EC-1 rated ELC. You want the EC-1 rating so that you do not need to bothe with the test strips and additives.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 17
From: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted by hydro man 17
You may want to look into the ELC coolant while you are at it also.....
__________________________________________________ ______________________
If you decide to go this route be sure that you get the CAT EC-1 rated coolant. There is plane ELC and there is an EC-1 rated ELC. You want the EC-1 rating so that you do not need to bothe with the test strips and additives.
__________________________________________________ ______________________
If you decide to go this route be sure that you get the CAT EC-1 rated coolant. There is plane ELC and there is an EC-1 rated ELC. You want the EC-1 rating so that you do not need to bothe with the test strips and additives.