Human shields
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Mission Viejo
Human shields
[QUOTE]Originally posted by franktheman
[B]Well,
quote
__________________________________________________ __
I'm a contractor, and I may not be an economics major able to spew out numbers and statistics, but I know that my market has taken a hit since Bush has been in office.
Whether all of it is attributable to Bush or not I can't say, I would doubt it, but I do believe had had quite a bit to do with it.
Stocks began their downturn before Bush.Get it straight.
[B]Well,
quote
__________________________________________________ __
I'm a contractor, and I may not be an economics major able to spew out numbers and statistics, but I know that my market has taken a hit since Bush has been in office.
Whether all of it is attributable to Bush or not I can't say, I would doubt it, but I do believe had had quite a bit to do with it.
Stocks began their downturn before Bush.Get it straight.
Last edited by dmilkman; Mar 1, 2003 at 08:21 PM.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 277
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From: San Rafael, NM
Human shields
The whole economic downslide started before Bush took office. Unfortunately most of the general public doesn't pay close attention to politics, they just vote on how they feel at the time. Now we even have some Dem. candidtates out there blaming Bush for the economy. Ignoring the fact that since Bush's tax cut, the economy has actually started to show growth. We have actually been out of recession for over a year now. Bisides, the ups and downs in the economy are largely cyclical and very little of what the administration or the economists recomend have any effect on it.
Am I better off than I was two yrs ago? Hell yes. I have better job than I have ever had before and I have been able to afford to increase my stock portfolio due to the dirt cheap prices. If we don't squash the threats to our country though, the uncertainty could realy dammage our future.
Am I better off than I was two yrs ago? Hell yes. I have better job than I have ever had before and I have been able to afford to increase my stock portfolio due to the dirt cheap prices. If we don't squash the threats to our country though, the uncertainty could realy dammage our future.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 632
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From: State College, Tunkhannoc
Human shields
wow how did i miss this thread
frank and bdv, you guys are putting forward great stuff.
ive always thought that clinton was a dirtbag, and not to trust him, but you guys make me think.... causing an unjust war for the sake of glory.... and having sex in the oval office.... big descrepancy there. i will say that the one pales in comparison to the other, as far as what's at stake. stds, a broken marriage, and a baby *****, vs a war of unknown proportions?
the more i think about it, clinton wasn't a bad president at all, except for gun control. i wasn't old enough to really care about politics or government when he was in office, but looking back on his presidency, he did everything i would expect the leader of our country to do... from looking out for those at home, to ignoring the crap going on around the world. he did manage to pursue peace in the middle east, through nonviolent means, and he was working for peace in korea when he left office. the economy was doing great, even if it was slipping up at the end of his presidency, it was still in an awesome state. everyone was making money and times were much more prosperous.
but how much of what is going on today can be blamed on 9/11? certainly its got to be the basis for us pursuing any offensive actions militarily, no matter what country. we are on a crusade against terrorism, which gives us a free hand around the world, right? and everyone is a patriot, because everyone wants to fit in. get on the wagon or you'll get left behind. its easy to see how people such as the germans and the japanese got whipped into such a frenzy and followed so blindly. they had no history to look to which would tell them what they are doing is wrong.
id also like to say, that in all the threads and posts we have put up about iraq in the past 4 months, ive been torn between what to believe and disbelieve- moreso as time has passed. back in november when iraq was being debated (not just on here), there was a much more prevalent unity on the subject and that war would be a good thing. i think you are seeing that as time passes, people are doing their homework, wising up, and finally thinking for themselves, and then speaking out. with us being in this age with all kinds of communications, its much easier to become educated on things- and to get your word out to others. hell ten years ago we wouldn't have been here talking about any of this.
the more educated the population of a country is, the more non violent they become. they become more mature, more docile, and work for peace- peace equals prosperity, which is what everybody is really after, you know- money!!! in germany, education was shunned because hitler wanted a dumb population that he could rule with ease, because they knew no better. i think that the more time people are given to think about this issue and debate it, that you will see more and more nonviolence and anti war views coming out.
the people you see shouting for war, they have no idea. all they know is one side of the story. they don't look at the whole picture, because they don't have the education or the mind to do that.
frank and bdv, you guys are putting forward great stuff.
ive always thought that clinton was a dirtbag, and not to trust him, but you guys make me think.... causing an unjust war for the sake of glory.... and having sex in the oval office.... big descrepancy there. i will say that the one pales in comparison to the other, as far as what's at stake. stds, a broken marriage, and a baby *****, vs a war of unknown proportions?
the more i think about it, clinton wasn't a bad president at all, except for gun control. i wasn't old enough to really care about politics or government when he was in office, but looking back on his presidency, he did everything i would expect the leader of our country to do... from looking out for those at home, to ignoring the crap going on around the world. he did manage to pursue peace in the middle east, through nonviolent means, and he was working for peace in korea when he left office. the economy was doing great, even if it was slipping up at the end of his presidency, it was still in an awesome state. everyone was making money and times were much more prosperous.
but how much of what is going on today can be blamed on 9/11? certainly its got to be the basis for us pursuing any offensive actions militarily, no matter what country. we are on a crusade against terrorism, which gives us a free hand around the world, right? and everyone is a patriot, because everyone wants to fit in. get on the wagon or you'll get left behind. its easy to see how people such as the germans and the japanese got whipped into such a frenzy and followed so blindly. they had no history to look to which would tell them what they are doing is wrong.
id also like to say, that in all the threads and posts we have put up about iraq in the past 4 months, ive been torn between what to believe and disbelieve- moreso as time has passed. back in november when iraq was being debated (not just on here), there was a much more prevalent unity on the subject and that war would be a good thing. i think you are seeing that as time passes, people are doing their homework, wising up, and finally thinking for themselves, and then speaking out. with us being in this age with all kinds of communications, its much easier to become educated on things- and to get your word out to others. hell ten years ago we wouldn't have been here talking about any of this.
the more educated the population of a country is, the more non violent they become. they become more mature, more docile, and work for peace- peace equals prosperity, which is what everybody is really after, you know- money!!! in germany, education was shunned because hitler wanted a dumb population that he could rule with ease, because they knew no better. i think that the more time people are given to think about this issue and debate it, that you will see more and more nonviolence and anti war views coming out.
the people you see shouting for war, they have no idea. all they know is one side of the story. they don't look at the whole picture, because they don't have the education or the mind to do that.
Last edited by cek181; Mar 1, 2003 at 08:51 PM.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 277
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From: San Rafael, NM
Human shields
Boy Chris aren't you a fool. Oops! maybe I shouldn't call names. You sound like me 12 years ago. Funny thing, since then I have become heavily involved in politics, earned 2 college degrees, and now have a family with a future to think about. You'll grow up one of these days.
Just remember, the only reason we have freedom in this country is because certain people were willing to die for that right. If you are not willing to fight to remain free, there will always be those who are willing to take your freedom from you. No body likes war.
Just remember, the only reason we have freedom in this country is because certain people were willing to die for that right. If you are not willing to fight to remain free, there will always be those who are willing to take your freedom from you. No body likes war.
Last edited by damonlan; Mar 1, 2003 at 09:42 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 632
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From: State College, Tunkhannoc
Human shields
Originally posted by damonlan
Boy Chris aren't you a fool. Oops! maybe I shouldn't call names. You sound like me 12 years ago. Funny thing, since then I have become heavily involved in politics, earned 2 college degrees, and now have a family with a future to think about. You'll grow up one of these days.
Just remember, the only reason we have freedom in this country is because certain people were willing to die for that right. If you are not willing to fight to remain free, there will always be those who are willing to take your freedom from you. No body likes war.
Boy Chris aren't you a fool. Oops! maybe I shouldn't call names. You sound like me 12 years ago. Funny thing, since then I have become heavily involved in politics, earned 2 college degrees, and now have a family with a future to think about. You'll grow up one of these days.
Just remember, the only reason we have freedom in this country is because certain people were willing to die for that right. If you are not willing to fight to remain free, there will always be those who are willing to take your freedom from you. No body likes war.
i grew up a long time ago, and consider myself more mature than many people ten years older than me. i don't need someone telling me over the internet that im immature because he can't see where my thoughts are coming from. thanks.
if you want to add something positive to the discussion then by all means, but if your going to belittle someone, don't waste your time- it only makes you look ignorant and self riteous.
and who are we fighting to remain free? who is invading our homeland and raping our women and burning down our houses? who is oppressing us? iraq?! the terrorists?! or the government? iraq certainly isn't bothering us. if we left them alone they would leave us alone, and we would probably have a fruitful relationship with them. the terrorists are causing terror because we have been terrorizing them for the past 50 years, at least that is the way they see it, so they are acting. our government oppressing us? you can all answer that for yourself im sure you have varying opinions on that.
Last edited by cek181; Mar 1, 2003 at 10:07 PM.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 277
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From: San Rafael, NM
Human shields
Hey Chris, when I wrote
, it was in response to you saying
. It was not intended to add any credit to what I was saying, rather it was stated to show the fallicy in your remark. Asuming that by saying 'non-violent' you meant anti-war. 12 year ago I was saying the exact same things you are saying in these 2 previous posts.
--But it also doesn't mean that I am not capable of critical thinking either, right? Doesn't sound to me like you have much life experience and possibly have a problem with authority. No degree?
But do others consider you to be as mature as you think you are? Bill Clinton to this day isn't mature and he was prez.
Sorry you get hurt so easily, how are you gonna handle it when the next terrorism incodent happens in this country. How about the one after that, and the one after that. How about when they kill your loved ones or disrupt our economy so bad that you can't spend that money you love so much. Are you gonna get this passionate then. If you don't think Saddam wants to destroy the USA, I don't know where you have been the last decade or so. Did I 'belittle' you? That was easy.
Aren't these all the things he did when he invaded Kuwait? How about being personally responsible for the torture and/or murder of over 1.5 million people? Oh, they weren't Americans so we should just leave him alone. If tyrany is allowed to proliferate throughout the world how are we gonna fight when we are the last ones standing?
What planet have you been living on? The US is by no means perfect but lets face it, these people hate us bucause their oppressive leaders have been educating them to hate us. They don't know the truth, they don't know freedom. Isreal tried it your way and all it got them was more bombings and killings. The only thing that slowed the terror down is the threat of the terrorists families going homeless. It is up to the US to show the oppressed people of the world what freedom is all about. France, Germany and the UN certainly aren't gonna do it. By the way, who started all this crap with Al Quaida (sp?) any how? Did our actions really warrant the Cobar Towers bombing or the USS Coal bombing or 911? They are called terrorists for a reason you know, it is cause they terrorize to get what they want, not for self defense.
Chris your opinion matters a lot to me. I do believe that all people are capable of something special, even you. You have the oportunity to to achieve great and special things because you live in a free society, I just wish you would want the oppressed people of the world to have the same opportunities.
Sorry for the name calling.
Funny thing, since then I have become heavily involved in politics, earned 2 college degrees, and now have a family with a future to think about
the more educated the population of a country is, the more non violent they become. they become more mature, more docile, and work for peace- peace equals prosperity, which is what everybody is really after, you know- money!!!
just because you have 2 college degrees and a family and a future (unlike nobody else here probably, you must be special in those regards) doesn't mean your opinion matters any more to me, or that you are capable of anything special, especially critical thinking.
grew up a long time ago, and consider myself more mature than many people ten years older than me.
if you want to add something positive to the discussion then by all means, but if your going to belittle someone, don't waste your time- it only makes you look ignorant and self riteous.
and who are we fighting to remain free? who is invading our homeland and raping our women and burning down our houses? who is oppressing us? iraq?! the terrorists?!
the terrorists are causing terror because we have been terrorizing them for the past 50 years, at least that is the way they see it,
doesn't mean your opinion matters any more to me, or that you are capable of anything special,
Sorry for the name calling.
Last edited by damonlan; Mar 2, 2003 at 12:07 AM.
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Human shields
quote
__________________________________________________ __
Boy Chris aren't you a fool. Oops! maybe I shouldn't call names.
__________________________________________________ __
What a nice thing to say. You should'int - could always have hit the back key.
quote
__________________________________________________ __
Just remember, the only reason we have freedom in this country is because certain people were willing to die for that right. If you are not willing to fight to remain free, there will always be those who are willing to take your freedom from you.
__________________________________________________ __
This is true as far as our forefathers go, but our present day United States more closely resembles the oppressive European powers, that this nation fought against earlier in it's history, than it does the nation born on July 4th 1776.
Our freedoms are being taken from us everyday, and even as we speak. This upcoming July a law will go into effect making it illegal to smoke in any restaurants or bars which serve food here in Florida.
In the State of N.J. you are alienated from your constitutional right to own a firearm without a special FID- Firearms Identification Card. By what authority does N.J. law supersede a constitutional amendment? Whats next? Maybe a special license to practice free speech. Many an OTR trucker involved in accidents have been arrested on the spot when police found loaded firearms kept in their vehicles for protection of themselves and their trucks and cargo.
Ever notice how those in power keep looking out for our best interest? They want to protect us from ourselves, since we apparantely aren't responsibe enough to -at least thats the way the "well meaning" politicians who go after our guns see it.
Just remember, the second amendment was deliberately put in place by our forefathers for a reason- to preserve all the other amendments. They lived it, and they saw it coming-by "it" I mean what this nation is coming to(tyranny).
Do you discipline your kids?
If discipline includes a good azz whoopin when it's needed, you'd better keep it a secret and hope your kids don't have big mouths.
They will prosecute you for it today. You are not allowed to straighten your kids out the same way you were straightened out, or the way your parents were straightened out, when they grew up.
A few years ago my uncle Rich did 30 days in jail, and 6 months probation for slapping my cousin ( who's 12 years younger than I)
right in her face. She wasint home when she was supposed to be, so he went looking for her-he found her making out at a friends party.
One word to her school guidance counsler was all it took to get him hung by his Buster Browns. Of course this same guidance counsler sympathized with her completely when she later became pregnant and did'int know how to tell my uncle.
So tell me more about this "freedom" of ours?
quote
__________________________________________________ __
just because you have 2 college degrees and a family and a future (unlike nobody else here probably, you must be special in those regards) doesn't mean your opinion matters any more to me
__________________________________________________ __
Well said....me neither.
No one's opinion is more valued than another, unless it's a matter of fact, certainly I would value a doctors opinion over that of a mechanic when it comes to treating terminal illness, but if they were both talking about rocket science they'd both be on an equal footing, and thats the way it is with this topic....different ideas are good.
Regards.
__________________________________________________ __
Boy Chris aren't you a fool. Oops! maybe I shouldn't call names.
__________________________________________________ __
What a nice thing to say. You should'int - could always have hit the back key.
quote
__________________________________________________ __
Just remember, the only reason we have freedom in this country is because certain people were willing to die for that right. If you are not willing to fight to remain free, there will always be those who are willing to take your freedom from you.
__________________________________________________ __
This is true as far as our forefathers go, but our present day United States more closely resembles the oppressive European powers, that this nation fought against earlier in it's history, than it does the nation born on July 4th 1776.
Our freedoms are being taken from us everyday, and even as we speak. This upcoming July a law will go into effect making it illegal to smoke in any restaurants or bars which serve food here in Florida.
In the State of N.J. you are alienated from your constitutional right to own a firearm without a special FID- Firearms Identification Card. By what authority does N.J. law supersede a constitutional amendment? Whats next? Maybe a special license to practice free speech. Many an OTR trucker involved in accidents have been arrested on the spot when police found loaded firearms kept in their vehicles for protection of themselves and their trucks and cargo.
Ever notice how those in power keep looking out for our best interest? They want to protect us from ourselves, since we apparantely aren't responsibe enough to -at least thats the way the "well meaning" politicians who go after our guns see it.
Just remember, the second amendment was deliberately put in place by our forefathers for a reason- to preserve all the other amendments. They lived it, and they saw it coming-by "it" I mean what this nation is coming to(tyranny).
Do you discipline your kids?
If discipline includes a good azz whoopin when it's needed, you'd better keep it a secret and hope your kids don't have big mouths.
They will prosecute you for it today. You are not allowed to straighten your kids out the same way you were straightened out, or the way your parents were straightened out, when they grew up.
A few years ago my uncle Rich did 30 days in jail, and 6 months probation for slapping my cousin ( who's 12 years younger than I)
right in her face. She wasint home when she was supposed to be, so he went looking for her-he found her making out at a friends party.
One word to her school guidance counsler was all it took to get him hung by his Buster Browns. Of course this same guidance counsler sympathized with her completely when she later became pregnant and did'int know how to tell my uncle.
So tell me more about this "freedom" of ours?
quote
__________________________________________________ __
just because you have 2 college degrees and a family and a future (unlike nobody else here probably, you must be special in those regards) doesn't mean your opinion matters any more to me
__________________________________________________ __
Well said....me neither.
No one's opinion is more valued than another, unless it's a matter of fact, certainly I would value a doctors opinion over that of a mechanic when it comes to treating terminal illness, but if they were both talking about rocket science they'd both be on an equal footing, and thats the way it is with this topic....different ideas are good.
Regards.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: San Rafael, NM
Human shields
franktheman, I am not sure you read all of my previoius posting, but I do agree with you on the loss of freedom thing. We still have more freedom in this country than any other country in the world, but we are loosing it fast and it is up to the voter to change that. It might seem next to impossible, but when things get bad enough change is usually made one way or another. If people weren't so apethetic and paid more attention they would realize that their freedoms are being widdled away every day, then they could vote those turkeys out of office. Unfortunately, in todays gimmie society people are more than willing to give up their freedoms in exchange for a handout or two. Sad. 
On the gun thing, I couldn't agree more. Registration = confiscation. That includes concealed carry laws that require you to register the fire arm you will be carrying. Many people think the 2nd is all about being able to defend ones self and ones family. In fact the founding fathers intended the 2nd as a protection against tyranical govornments, foreign and domestic.
It may seem like we are eventually gonna loose all our freedoms and that things keep getting worse. But we can not roll over and play dead, we must keep fighting for our freedom domestically as well as worldwide. We must be willing to die for our freedom or our freedom will die.
I'd rather be a poor free man than a well fed slave.
On the gun thing, I couldn't agree more. Registration = confiscation. That includes concealed carry laws that require you to register the fire arm you will be carrying. Many people think the 2nd is all about being able to defend ones self and ones family. In fact the founding fathers intended the 2nd as a protection against tyranical govornments, foreign and domestic.
It may seem like we are eventually gonna loose all our freedoms and that things keep getting worse. But we can not roll over and play dead, we must keep fighting for our freedom domestically as well as worldwide. We must be willing to die for our freedom or our freedom will die.
I'd rather be a poor free man than a well fed slave.
Last edited by damonlan; Mar 2, 2003 at 02:37 AM.
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From: Bakersfield Ca.
Human shields
Originally posted by big_daddy_velvet
And then you have people that will bash Clinton just because he's not a conservative repooplican, such as Rush Limbaugh.
I think it's great the Clinton slept with interns and lied about it. He did the same thing any of you cheating husbands out there would have done...he lied because he figured he could get away with it. So would you, so don't try to spout "morality" on me. I can't think of any reason why a persons private life has more bearing than his ability to lead, which I think Clinton did a pretty good job of doing. Every president right on down the line has acted immorally; men with real "morals" don't get into politics in the first place!
BDV
And then you have people that will bash Clinton just because he's not a conservative repooplican, such as Rush Limbaugh.
I think it's great the Clinton slept with interns and lied about it. He did the same thing any of you cheating husbands out there would have done...he lied because he figured he could get away with it. So would you, so don't try to spout "morality" on me. I can't think of any reason why a persons private life has more bearing than his ability to lead, which I think Clinton did a pretty good job of doing. Every president right on down the line has acted immorally; men with real "morals" don't get into politics in the first place!
BDV
I'm not trying to "spout morality" on you BDV. I'm far from perfect myself. You said what you would have done given the chance and you put Clinton up on a pedestal for doing it. But since you don't know me how do you know what I would do or not do? You have one of those Magic Eight ***** or something? You want to call me a lier? Go ahead, you seem to be looking for the worst in people. You seem make judgements about people based upon how YOU would act. I'm not you and neither are a lot of good folks on this board who wouldn't do the same things you said you would do. Sorry, your not going to label me as being the same as you.
As far as private life goes, I believe it has some bearing on the ability for a person to lead. Yes Clinton lied. I can understand why too. But for a leader, any leader to put him or herself into a compromising position opens him or herself up to blackmail in order to keep it under wraps. Does it make you wonder how far a leader would go in order to keep something like this from becoming public? What secrets could be given away? What technology sold to unfriendly governments? What political deals given to special interest groups in order to buy silence? What kinds of bad legislation could be signed into law to hush up a political scandel or people start to mysteriously dissappear, their credibility destroyed or they end up dead in a freak accident? More lies and cover up. An affair with an intern might not yield such disastrous results. But if it's known that a leader is willing to allow him or herself to be put in such a position, then someone with an agenda might try to get close and attempt blackmail. Think it's possible? I do. So yes I do believe things like this can have an effect on how a leader can do his or her job when someone's gott'em by the short and curlys. So how a person conducts themselves in private is important when they are the leader of the free world. Your right, presidents are fallable like everyone else. But I believe there is a line between fallable and recklessness. Given that the dirty deed was done in the oval office, it crossed that line.
No morals in politics? I believe that's the problem. What this country REALLY needs is men and women with real morals in politics. Impossible? I would rather hope for the best than assume the worst. I guess it all comes down to where those morals come from and to whom people place their hope in.
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From: Western Colorado USA
Human shields
Getting back to the original topic
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html
Human shield Britons quit Baghdad
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From: 5600 feet high
Human shields
Scathing, Daily, scathing...
Golly, I guess nobody on this board is like me. There are lots of "good" people in here...I'm suprised I haven't been asked to leave because my views are controversial.
But what's funny is that we agree for the most part...I just don't think Clinton did anything wrong with respect to what the Presidents before him got away with. He was just hunted down by the Republicans. Now, if the Democrats were to do the same thing against Bushy, they would be labeled "pro-terror" or something outrageous...I guarantee if they looked, they could find plenty of dirt on Bushy.
Who is the better man, Bushy or Clinton? Neither, they are both dirtbags. I don't think you can tag either with any value...
I think Clinton should definitely have been forthcoming with his affairs with his interns; it would have made the media look like buffoons, because they put somuch energy and time and money into defaming him for it. He should have been like "heck yes, I did it, and so would MANY of you people trying to hang me for it, so shut up!" But see, that's the problem. Honesty has no merit in politics, it only gets people in trouble. So yeah, I don't blame him for lying, and I wouldn't blame Bushy for lying also. They were RAISED that way! If you want to get into the White House, lies must be told, things must be hidden, stuff must be swept under the carpet or bribed away, from the time you leave high school to the time you run for Prez.
BDV
Golly, I guess nobody on this board is like me. There are lots of "good" people in here...I'm suprised I haven't been asked to leave because my views are controversial.
But what's funny is that we agree for the most part...I just don't think Clinton did anything wrong with respect to what the Presidents before him got away with. He was just hunted down by the Republicans. Now, if the Democrats were to do the same thing against Bushy, they would be labeled "pro-terror" or something outrageous...I guarantee if they looked, they could find plenty of dirt on Bushy.
Who is the better man, Bushy or Clinton? Neither, they are both dirtbags. I don't think you can tag either with any value...
I think Clinton should definitely have been forthcoming with his affairs with his interns; it would have made the media look like buffoons, because they put somuch energy and time and money into defaming him for it. He should have been like "heck yes, I did it, and so would MANY of you people trying to hang me for it, so shut up!" But see, that's the problem. Honesty has no merit in politics, it only gets people in trouble. So yeah, I don't blame him for lying, and I wouldn't blame Bushy for lying also. They were RAISED that way! If you want to get into the White House, lies must be told, things must be hidden, stuff must be swept under the carpet or bribed away, from the time you leave high school to the time you run for Prez.
BDV
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From: Western Colorado USA
Human shields
Originally posted by big_daddy_velvet
Scathing, Daily, scathing...
Golly, I guess nobody on this board is like me. There are lots of "good" people in here...I'm suprised I haven't been asked to leave because my views are controversial.
BDV
Scathing, Daily, scathing...
Golly, I guess nobody on this board is like me. There are lots of "good" people in here...I'm suprised I haven't been asked to leave because my views are controversial.
BDV
https://www.ford-trucks.com/guidelines.html
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From: State College, Tunkhannoc
Human shields
Originally posted by damonlan
Doesn't sound to me like you have much life experience and possibly have a problem with authority. No degree?
i have quite a bit actually, and no problem with authority. i just like to do my own thing and leave people alone, and in return i ask that i be left alone. if im not bothering somebody else, then they shouldn't bother me. and no i don't have a degree, 2 more years. what is a degree? a piece of paper that says you sat in classes for 4 years and managed to pass enough of them to be considered intellectual? some people have college degrees and can't even read.
But do others consider you to be as mature as you think you are? Bill Clinton to this day isn't mature and he was prez.
yea actually they do, 2 of the more esteemed members of this site told me in the past week that i was mature beyond my years. i shouldn't have to be defending myself to you about this, it's uncalled for.
as far as whether or not bill clinton was mature, it depends on your definition of maturity. there's maturity levels for all differnt age groups, he was what 40 some years old? not too bad. when you compare him to someone regan's age, then yea he might have come off as completely immature for the position he was holding. it's all relative.
Sorry you get hurt so easily, how are you gonna handle it when the next terrorism incodent happens in this country. How about the one after that, and the one after that. How about when they kill your loved ones or disrupt our economy so bad that you can't spend that money you love so much. Are you gonna get this passionate then. If you don't think Saddam wants to destroy the USA, I don't know where you have been the last decade or so. Did I 'belittle' you? That was easy.
actually it's not easy to belittle me, it's just pathetic that you need to do that to try and get a point accross because you can't do it by educational means. sorry, but you don't get to me one bit. the last person who's going to get to me is someone who doesn't agree with me in an internet forum. using pathetic pleas for emotion in your arguement isn't very good either. its what politicians do to try and win the masses, from sensationalized stories on abortion, to gun control.
to answer your questions, when the next terrorism incident happens in this country, im going to go on with my daily life, what else is there to do? when they kill my loved ones- that's a little personal question to be asking i think. your putting terrorism attacks against the US together with saddamn hussein, and they arn't related. why would saddamn want to destroy the US? what could he gain from that? he could never hope to put a dent in our country. saddamn just wants to be left alone. he is how many thousands and thousands of miles away? and here we are flying over his country and shooting at his military installations for the past dozen years, would you be pissed off if some country was flying their jets over our airspace every day? there are many problems in the middle east, and a good 90 percent of them have to be solved by the people that live there. not by us. we can try all we want, but all we are doing is hurting ourselves. if we took a non agressive stance towards the middle east, and iraq, they would ease up their tensions towards us as well. you ever been in a fight before? if one guy throws down his hands and opens his palms up signifying he doesn't want to fight, chances are the other guy will relax as well. and it will deescalate from there. all it takes is for one side to give in and talk nicely to the otherside. the US could do that, but it won't because it is a sheer matter of pride for our country.
Aren't these all the things he did when he invaded Kuwait? How about being personally responsible for the torture and/or murder of over 1.5 million people? Oh, they weren't Americans so we should just leave him alone. If tyrany is allowed to proliferate throughout the world how are we gonna fight when we are the last ones standing?
throughout the world? he went a few hundred miles outside of his borders. he doesn't have the capability to do anything more than that. and he has enough neighbors right now that hate him to keep him in check. we won't be the last one's standing if saddamn hussein goes on a quest for world domination- which is such a stupid idea in the first place. he doesn't have the means or the capabilities to do anything close. if tyranny or it's leaders steps out of line, the vast majority of the world is on our side to fight with us. you saw all the nations of the world come together after sept 11th. it would be no different if iraq tried invading other countries or just attacking them for their own pleasure.
What planet have you been living on? The US is by no means perfect but lets face it, these people hate us bucause their oppressive leaders have been educating them to hate us. They don't know the truth, they don't know freedom.
the reason they hate us is because we have been meddling in their affairs since the middle of the last century, and they have had enough. if someone was prying into your personal life and telling you how you should live, wouldn't you punch them in the face and tell them to leave? what other options do a bunch of guys without a huge military to take on the US have besides terror attacks? that is their last resort because they feel their backs are against the walls.
Isreal tried it your way and all it got them was more bombings and killings.
actually you have that backwards. israel has tried to be aggressive with it's neighbors and that is why they got more bombings and killings.
The only thing that slowed the terror down is the threat of the terrorists families going homeless. It is up to the US to show the oppressed people of the world what freedom is all about.
if people want to live in our way of life, then our doors are open to them. did you ever think that maybe some people around the world don't want to live like us? that they like it the way they have it? that they are actually better off not being free? how about a socialist or communist economy where nobody is free, but everyone is happy because everybody has a job and a place to live. there's 3 sides to every coin.
France, Germany and the UN certainly aren't gonna do it. By the way, who started all this crap with Al Quaida (sp?) any how? Did our actions really warrant the Cobar Towers bombing or the USS Coal bombing or 911? They are called terrorists for a reason you know, it is cause they terrorize to get what they want, not for self defense.
i think people terrorize because they have no other options. they can't come to the table for talks, because they have nothing as far as power or money to back them up, so they carry no weight. they can't threaten us with a conventional military. but all they have is terror attacks. as far as what they want, it is to be left alone. they have their part of the world and we have ours. and if we are to ever get along in this world with one another, we have to respect one another and everyone's personal space and decisions to do what they want with what they have.
i agree, that everyone should be free and have great opportunities. but at what cost does it come to us as americans at? in the process do we lose our greatness, our own freedoms, our lead on the rest of the world? should we concentrate on our own country more instead of worrying about everyone else's affairs? those are some philosophical questions that need to be answered by our government.
Doesn't sound to me like you have much life experience and possibly have a problem with authority. No degree?
i have quite a bit actually, and no problem with authority. i just like to do my own thing and leave people alone, and in return i ask that i be left alone. if im not bothering somebody else, then they shouldn't bother me. and no i don't have a degree, 2 more years. what is a degree? a piece of paper that says you sat in classes for 4 years and managed to pass enough of them to be considered intellectual? some people have college degrees and can't even read.
But do others consider you to be as mature as you think you are? Bill Clinton to this day isn't mature and he was prez.
yea actually they do, 2 of the more esteemed members of this site told me in the past week that i was mature beyond my years. i shouldn't have to be defending myself to you about this, it's uncalled for.
as far as whether or not bill clinton was mature, it depends on your definition of maturity. there's maturity levels for all differnt age groups, he was what 40 some years old? not too bad. when you compare him to someone regan's age, then yea he might have come off as completely immature for the position he was holding. it's all relative.
Sorry you get hurt so easily, how are you gonna handle it when the next terrorism incodent happens in this country. How about the one after that, and the one after that. How about when they kill your loved ones or disrupt our economy so bad that you can't spend that money you love so much. Are you gonna get this passionate then. If you don't think Saddam wants to destroy the USA, I don't know where you have been the last decade or so. Did I 'belittle' you? That was easy.
actually it's not easy to belittle me, it's just pathetic that you need to do that to try and get a point accross because you can't do it by educational means. sorry, but you don't get to me one bit. the last person who's going to get to me is someone who doesn't agree with me in an internet forum. using pathetic pleas for emotion in your arguement isn't very good either. its what politicians do to try and win the masses, from sensationalized stories on abortion, to gun control.
to answer your questions, when the next terrorism incident happens in this country, im going to go on with my daily life, what else is there to do? when they kill my loved ones- that's a little personal question to be asking i think. your putting terrorism attacks against the US together with saddamn hussein, and they arn't related. why would saddamn want to destroy the US? what could he gain from that? he could never hope to put a dent in our country. saddamn just wants to be left alone. he is how many thousands and thousands of miles away? and here we are flying over his country and shooting at his military installations for the past dozen years, would you be pissed off if some country was flying their jets over our airspace every day? there are many problems in the middle east, and a good 90 percent of them have to be solved by the people that live there. not by us. we can try all we want, but all we are doing is hurting ourselves. if we took a non agressive stance towards the middle east, and iraq, they would ease up their tensions towards us as well. you ever been in a fight before? if one guy throws down his hands and opens his palms up signifying he doesn't want to fight, chances are the other guy will relax as well. and it will deescalate from there. all it takes is for one side to give in and talk nicely to the otherside. the US could do that, but it won't because it is a sheer matter of pride for our country.
Aren't these all the things he did when he invaded Kuwait? How about being personally responsible for the torture and/or murder of over 1.5 million people? Oh, they weren't Americans so we should just leave him alone. If tyrany is allowed to proliferate throughout the world how are we gonna fight when we are the last ones standing?
throughout the world? he went a few hundred miles outside of his borders. he doesn't have the capability to do anything more than that. and he has enough neighbors right now that hate him to keep him in check. we won't be the last one's standing if saddamn hussein goes on a quest for world domination- which is such a stupid idea in the first place. he doesn't have the means or the capabilities to do anything close. if tyranny or it's leaders steps out of line, the vast majority of the world is on our side to fight with us. you saw all the nations of the world come together after sept 11th. it would be no different if iraq tried invading other countries or just attacking them for their own pleasure.
What planet have you been living on? The US is by no means perfect but lets face it, these people hate us bucause their oppressive leaders have been educating them to hate us. They don't know the truth, they don't know freedom.
the reason they hate us is because we have been meddling in their affairs since the middle of the last century, and they have had enough. if someone was prying into your personal life and telling you how you should live, wouldn't you punch them in the face and tell them to leave? what other options do a bunch of guys without a huge military to take on the US have besides terror attacks? that is their last resort because they feel their backs are against the walls.
Isreal tried it your way and all it got them was more bombings and killings.
actually you have that backwards. israel has tried to be aggressive with it's neighbors and that is why they got more bombings and killings.
The only thing that slowed the terror down is the threat of the terrorists families going homeless. It is up to the US to show the oppressed people of the world what freedom is all about.
if people want to live in our way of life, then our doors are open to them. did you ever think that maybe some people around the world don't want to live like us? that they like it the way they have it? that they are actually better off not being free? how about a socialist or communist economy where nobody is free, but everyone is happy because everybody has a job and a place to live. there's 3 sides to every coin.
France, Germany and the UN certainly aren't gonna do it. By the way, who started all this crap with Al Quaida (sp?) any how? Did our actions really warrant the Cobar Towers bombing or the USS Coal bombing or 911? They are called terrorists for a reason you know, it is cause they terrorize to get what they want, not for self defense.
i think people terrorize because they have no other options. they can't come to the table for talks, because they have nothing as far as power or money to back them up, so they carry no weight. they can't threaten us with a conventional military. but all they have is terror attacks. as far as what they want, it is to be left alone. they have their part of the world and we have ours. and if we are to ever get along in this world with one another, we have to respect one another and everyone's personal space and decisions to do what they want with what they have.
i agree, that everyone should be free and have great opportunities. but at what cost does it come to us as americans at? in the process do we lose our greatness, our own freedoms, our lead on the rest of the world? should we concentrate on our own country more instead of worrying about everyone else's affairs? those are some philosophical questions that need to be answered by our government.
Last edited by cek181; Mar 2, 2003 at 11:02 AM.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
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Human shields
Maybe.....
quote
__________________________________________________ __
I think it's great the Clinton slept with interns and lied about it. He did the same thing any of you cheating husbands out there would have done...he lied because he figured he could get away with it
__________________________________________________ __
I guess it's possible that under the right circumstances that all of us could be made to cheat on our spouses.
There are times when I have been away from my wife for up to 6months because of jobs, and when that happens I do get restless for it.
I suppose if I were in a bar after work, and some young hotty started putting the make on me, that it's possible that I may go for it...if I were drunk enough.
And if I did do it, I probably would'int tell the old lady, you got me there- "dyin' , ain't much of a livin' boy"- Outlaw Josey Wales. lol.
But I know this possibility, and thats why I say out of bars, and most places where I might end up in a situation like this .
Regards.
quote
__________________________________________________ __
I think it's great the Clinton slept with interns and lied about it. He did the same thing any of you cheating husbands out there would have done...he lied because he figured he could get away with it
__________________________________________________ __
I guess it's possible that under the right circumstances that all of us could be made to cheat on our spouses.
There are times when I have been away from my wife for up to 6months because of jobs, and when that happens I do get restless for it.
I suppose if I were in a bar after work, and some young hotty started putting the make on me, that it's possible that I may go for it...if I were drunk enough.
And if I did do it, I probably would'int tell the old lady, you got me there- "dyin' , ain't much of a livin' boy"- Outlaw Josey Wales. lol.
But I know this possibility, and thats why I say out of bars, and most places where I might end up in a situation like this
.Regards.
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