Upgrade ignition?
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Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Norton, MA
Upgrade ignition?
Hay everybody, well ready to put the cap on my 400 project (plan, haha). But I've left one thing til the end to even really start thinking about, a new ignition system.
I'm not positive on my final configuration, but it's a 408, likely full roller setup, and with either 2V or 4V iron closed chamber heads. CR of 10.3. The rest is pretty much what you'de figure, 0 timing, headers, the whole list, and I have several carbs to work with from 600-800 cfm.
With that general picture of my engine in mind, what would people recommend I do about my distributor, coil, and box? I haven't made any provision for buying a new setup since I have my old one and it worked juust fine on my old 400 (and I'll be using it to fire up the 408), but it has been on my mind. With a pretty built up 400 like I'm going to be dealing with, am I just absolutely missing out on power with out an MSD ignition, and fresh distributor, or is that a myth, or do I wait and see?
Thanks, AleX
I'm not positive on my final configuration, but it's a 408, likely full roller setup, and with either 2V or 4V iron closed chamber heads. CR of 10.3. The rest is pretty much what you'de figure, 0 timing, headers, the whole list, and I have several carbs to work with from 600-800 cfm.
With that general picture of my engine in mind, what would people recommend I do about my distributor, coil, and box? I haven't made any provision for buying a new setup since I have my old one and it worked juust fine on my old 400 (and I'll be using it to fire up the 408), but it has been on my mind. With a pretty built up 400 like I'm going to be dealing with, am I just absolutely missing out on power with out an MSD ignition, and fresh distributor, or is that a myth, or do I wait and see?
Thanks, AleX
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
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From: Denver Metro Area, CO
What kind of RPMs are you expecting to run at?
If you search through the archives of this forum, you'll find that most people are fine with the
stock DSII at around 5,000 RPMs and below and that aftermarket ignitions are useful only in
high-revving racing situations.
If you search through the archives of this forum, you'll find that most people are fine with the
stock DSII at around 5,000 RPMs and below and that aftermarket ignitions are useful only in
high-revving racing situations.
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Posting Guru
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From: Norton, MA
Well, that's part of the problem, if I go with the 4V heads, I'm going to be running higher RPM's, and keeping my smaller tires. If I go with the 2V's, I'll likely go a couple inches bigger on the tires, and run at lower RPM's, so 5,000 is sort of my dividing line right now.
The truck is for fun, ripping around, but also daily driving, and some actual truck work. I won't be above 5,000 RPM often even if I keep the 4V's, so it sounds like I should just keep my stock stuff? (which I would love, for the $ reason) But how will I know if my distributor might need even a rebuild or a stock replacement?
The truck is for fun, ripping around, but also daily driving, and some actual truck work. I won't be above 5,000 RPM often even if I keep the 4V's, so it sounds like I should just keep my stock stuff? (which I would love, for the $ reason) But how will I know if my distributor might need even a rebuild or a stock replacement?
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,940
Likes: 8
From: Southern Oregon Coast
If it were me, I'd stick with the stock ignition - it works and parts are relatively cheap.
Distributors are cheap - I'm running a 460 dizzy in my 400 - they're physically identical but the timing curve is different between the two and that difference took care of a pinging problem I was having...
A few years back, I upgraded the ignition on an AMC Eagle to the DSII with the large cap and adapter on the dizzy and new stock coil - kept the stock dizzy. That thing ran like a raped ape after that.
Distributors are cheap - I'm running a 460 dizzy in my 400 - they're physically identical but the timing curve is different between the two and that difference took care of a pinging problem I was having...
A few years back, I upgraded the ignition on an AMC Eagle to the DSII with the large cap and adapter on the dizzy and new stock coil - kept the stock dizzy. That thing ran like a raped ape after that.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
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From: Denver Metro Area, CO
When I rebuilt my 400 a few years ago, my machinist encouraged me to replace the
distributor because 1) rebuilt ones cheap, and 2) they come with a new pickup thing and
a new vacuum advance in 'em, providing you with warm, fuzzy feelings that the
distributor shouldn't be a problem in the near future, so I did it.
He also adjusted the timing curve on the new one for my application.
I think there are various resistance tests that can be made on those pickup devices so
you can see if it's out of spec or not but I know of no way of figuring out for how long it
will remain that way (remember, these things are around 30 years old).
As for mechanical aspects, there might be some sort of specs somewhere telling what
the tolerances should be of the gears and whatnot, that might help you.
But, in sum, I'd just buy a new (rebuilt) one, they're cheap compared to everything else
you're doing.
distributor because 1) rebuilt ones cheap, and 2) they come with a new pickup thing and
a new vacuum advance in 'em, providing you with warm, fuzzy feelings that the
distributor shouldn't be a problem in the near future, so I did it.
He also adjusted the timing curve on the new one for my application.
I think there are various resistance tests that can be made on those pickup devices so
you can see if it's out of spec or not but I know of no way of figuring out for how long it
will remain that way (remember, these things are around 30 years old).
As for mechanical aspects, there might be some sort of specs somewhere telling what
the tolerances should be of the gears and whatnot, that might help you.
But, in sum, I'd just buy a new (rebuilt) one, they're cheap compared to everything else
you're doing.
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,937
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From: wyoming
I'm MSD kinda guy!
If you go with MSD? their distributor has a phaseable rotor tuning capability. Not sure on the other stuff you guys mentioned before. been running MSD for so long kinda forgot about the factoy stuff. I just know I'm a happy msd guy compared to factroy stuff. phaseable rotor is a nice feature to have especially in the higher rpms. Won't go wrong with a Msd and can be found in just about any decent parts store just like Oem stuff. had some good luck with Acell ignitions also. OEM or MSD???
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
From: Columbia Falls, Montana
460 351m/400 351c have the same distributors. Options are out there, but for a low budget, I really like my procomp hei. Not sure how it compares to the stock ignition, cause I didn't try it out on my new motor. I know I really like how the procomp works so far, and it cost like 60.00 and require only one power wire and its done. A friend of mine uses his stock distributor with a msd box and coil, and really likes it. His is built up a bit too. has 9.5 headers, performer intake, comp cam, thunder series 650 carb and it runs really good.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 2
From: wyoming
pro comp stuff?
did a procomp distributor in a 440 1970 challenger car just recently and ran great. but It didn't have the phaseable rotor option with this paticular setup. It had the small distributor cap. a tunable rotor is a good thing and if your changing things on cams/gears and running higher rpms 3500 rpm and up it will help. Its a tool to help fine tune your ignition and help coil saturation time when firing. 
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