Invoice Question
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Junior User
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Invoice Question
Folks,
As I posted in another thread, I am ordering my first F250 PSD and I am stoked. I sat down with the salesman and before even building a truck we agreed to $500 below invoice no matter what the invoice roll-up turned out to be. Maybe a poor negotiating strategy, but I like to keep things simple.
Anyway, we built the truck up and he printed out the order sheet and I took it home (I did not place my order because I could not decide on a color). As I looked at the price roll-up, everything seems in order until I get to the end. At the bottom they added in $975 in destination fee (OK), but they added a $85 fuel charge and more importantly a $672 FDAF Assessement.
Does any one know what these last two charges are and whether the are legitimately part of the "invoice price". The sales guy has been decent with me, but I overlooked these last two in the office and I want to make sure that he is playing me square.
Thanks in advance for your help.
As I posted in another thread, I am ordering my first F250 PSD and I am stoked. I sat down with the salesman and before even building a truck we agreed to $500 below invoice no matter what the invoice roll-up turned out to be. Maybe a poor negotiating strategy, but I like to keep things simple.
Anyway, we built the truck up and he printed out the order sheet and I took it home (I did not place my order because I could not decide on a color). As I looked at the price roll-up, everything seems in order until I get to the end. At the bottom they added in $975 in destination fee (OK), but they added a $85 fuel charge and more importantly a $672 FDAF Assessement.
Does any one know what these last two charges are and whether the are legitimately part of the "invoice price". The sales guy has been decent with me, but I overlooked these last two in the office and I want to make sure that he is playing me square.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 51
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Folks,
As I posted in another thread, I am ordering my first F250 PSD and I am stoked. I sat down with the salesman and before even building a truck we agreed to $500 below invoice no matter what the invoice roll-up turned out to be. Maybe a poor negotiating strategy, but I like to keep things simple.
Anyway, we built the truck up and he printed out the order sheet and I took it home (I did not place my order because I could not decide on a color). As I looked at the price roll-up, everything seems in order until I get to the end. At the bottom they added in $975 in destination fee (OK), but they added a $85 fuel charge and more importantly a $672 FDAF Assessement.
Does any one know what these last two charges are and whether the are legitimately part of the "invoice price". The sales guy has been decent with me, but I overlooked these last two in the office and I want to make sure that he is playing me square.
Thanks in advance for your help.
As I posted in another thread, I am ordering my first F250 PSD and I am stoked. I sat down with the salesman and before even building a truck we agreed to $500 below invoice no matter what the invoice roll-up turned out to be. Maybe a poor negotiating strategy, but I like to keep things simple.
Anyway, we built the truck up and he printed out the order sheet and I took it home (I did not place my order because I could not decide on a color). As I looked at the price roll-up, everything seems in order until I get to the end. At the bottom they added in $975 in destination fee (OK), but they added a $85 fuel charge and more importantly a $672 FDAF Assessement.
Does any one know what these last two charges are and whether the are legitimately part of the "invoice price". The sales guy has been decent with me, but I overlooked these last two in the office and I want to make sure that he is playing me square.
Thanks in advance for your help.
, But I did pay the $972 destination charge, shop it around there's lots of ford dealers out there!!! 
Good Luck and welcome to FTE
Postmaster
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Fuel and FDAF charges were paid one way or another, either out of your pocket or the dealers. Those charges are set by Ford just like D&D is and someone has to pay it...
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Junior User
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Good - I am not the only one confused.
I have checked in a couple places for invoice price levels on the F-250 and none of them include this FDAF assessment in the invoice roll-up. I understand that it is a marketing fee, but if Ford assesses that fee against the dealer then they run thier business very different from mine (construction equipment manuf). We assess a marketing fee against product, but it is included in the transaction price to the dealer. They never see it. We then use that fee to support special dealer programs (interest rate buy downs, incentives, etc). Again, neither the dealer nor customer would ever see this and it would never be part of a transaction. I may try to stop by today and have the dealer do an X-plan quote for me as well (I have x-plan too) and see if it shows up on that deal sheet, if not, something is fishy.
I will let you know what I learn. Thanks
I have checked in a couple places for invoice price levels on the F-250 and none of them include this FDAF assessment in the invoice roll-up. I understand that it is a marketing fee, but if Ford assesses that fee against the dealer then they run thier business very different from mine (construction equipment manuf). We assess a marketing fee against product, but it is included in the transaction price to the dealer. They never see it. We then use that fee to support special dealer programs (interest rate buy downs, incentives, etc). Again, neither the dealer nor customer would ever see this and it would never be part of a transaction. I may try to stop by today and have the dealer do an X-plan quote for me as well (I have x-plan too) and see if it shows up on that deal sheet, if not, something is fishy.
I will let you know what I learn. Thanks
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 107
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From: Arizona
Here is what carbuyingtips.com has to say about ad fees:
Car makers charge dealers for regional and national advertising campaigns. These charges are reflected on the invoice and are a legitimate cost of doing business.
But they go on to say...
This is where opinions differ, as I feel it's their cost of doing business, not ours. Tell them to pay your fees like gas, wear and tear, and your time for driving all over town to shop for the car. Many dealers are sticklers about this fee, and it's difficult to get them to drop it, but some do waive the fee. If a dealer adds on their own advertising fee above and beyond this, they are out of bounds. Dealers try to charge $250-$1000, but it should not be more than $250. You're not paying for their inability to find cost effective ads. $1000 ad fees allow the dealer to charge you a lower price on the car. You think you're saving money, but ad fees take it right back. This fee may also show up as "Sales Promotion Fund", or DAA, or ADA, or anything referring to ads. Edmund's says it's non-negotiable, but they are wrong. Anything in life is negotiable, and I don't give up that easily. What angers me the most is the cryptic way that dealers hide this fee from you by using huge acronyms, then playing stupid when you question it. "Duh, I don't know, we always charge this fee". A Nissan Dealer in Chicago told one of our visitors that they have to charge the Nissan advertisement fee and can't drop it or they can face a class action law suit. Nice scam. Where's my bull icon?
Ford dealers use the cryptic term "FDAF/LMDA" on their invoice. "FDAF" stands for "Ford Dealer Advertising Fund", and the "LMDA" stands for Lincoln Mercury Dealer Advertising. Why can't they just disclose it as "ad fee"? I didn't pay an ad fee for my Lexus in 1998 or the Mazda Millenia in 1999. Honda add fees are built into the invoice price, don't let them charge you extra. Other companies choose their own cryptic acronym, like DAA (Dealer Area Advertising), TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertising Fee), HDA, you get the picture. If it ends with an "A", it's most likely an advertising fee. Speaking of advertising, dealers are neither grateful nor shy about plastering their name on the trunk of your shiny new car at a cost of $0 to them. You then spend the next several years advertising their dealership free of charge with your moving billboard. You should charge them a $600 advertising fee for that.
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Junior User
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PowerstrokeHD is correctly pointing out it is what it is... and it is part of the invoice price.
Here is what carbuyingtips.com has to say about ad fees:
Car makers charge dealers for regional and national advertising campaigns. These charges are reflected on the invoice and are a legitimate cost of doing business.
But they go on to say...
This is where opinions differ, as I feel it's their cost of doing business, not ours. Tell them to pay your fees like gas, wear and tear, and your time for driving all over town to shop for the car. Many dealers are sticklers about this fee, and it's difficult to get them to drop it, but some do waive the fee. If a dealer adds on their own advertising fee above and beyond this, they are out of bounds. Dealers try to charge $250-$1000, but it should not be more than $250. You're not paying for their inability to find cost effective ads. $1000 ad fees allow the dealer to charge you a lower price on the car. You think you're saving money, but ad fees take it right back. This fee may also show up as "Sales Promotion Fund", or DAA, or ADA, or anything referring to ads. Edmund's says it's non-negotiable, but they are wrong. Anything in life is negotiable, and I don't give up that easily. What angers me the most is the cryptic way that dealers hide this fee from you by using huge acronyms, then playing stupid when you question it. "Duh, I don't know, we always charge this fee". A Nissan Dealer in Chicago told one of our visitors that they have to charge the Nissan advertisement fee and can't drop it or they can face a class action law suit. Nice scam. Where's my bull icon?
Ford dealers use the cryptic term "FDAF/LMDA" on their invoice. "FDAF" stands for "Ford Dealer Advertising Fund", and the "LMDA" stands for Lincoln Mercury Dealer Advertising. Why can't they just disclose it as "ad fee"? I didn't pay an ad fee for my Lexus in 1998 or the Mazda Millenia in 1999. Honda add fees are built into the invoice price, don't let them charge you extra. Other companies choose their own cryptic acronym, like DAA (Dealer Area Advertising), TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertising Fee), HDA, you get the picture. If it ends with an "A", it's most likely an advertising fee. Speaking of advertising, dealers are neither grateful nor shy about plastering their name on the trunk of your shiny new car at a cost of $0 to them. You then spend the next several years advertising their dealership free of charge with your moving billboard. You should charge them a $600 advertising fee for that.
Here is what carbuyingtips.com has to say about ad fees:
Car makers charge dealers for regional and national advertising campaigns. These charges are reflected on the invoice and are a legitimate cost of doing business.
But they go on to say...
This is where opinions differ, as I feel it's their cost of doing business, not ours. Tell them to pay your fees like gas, wear and tear, and your time for driving all over town to shop for the car. Many dealers are sticklers about this fee, and it's difficult to get them to drop it, but some do waive the fee. If a dealer adds on their own advertising fee above and beyond this, they are out of bounds. Dealers try to charge $250-$1000, but it should not be more than $250. You're not paying for their inability to find cost effective ads. $1000 ad fees allow the dealer to charge you a lower price on the car. You think you're saving money, but ad fees take it right back. This fee may also show up as "Sales Promotion Fund", or DAA, or ADA, or anything referring to ads. Edmund's says it's non-negotiable, but they are wrong. Anything in life is negotiable, and I don't give up that easily. What angers me the most is the cryptic way that dealers hide this fee from you by using huge acronyms, then playing stupid when you question it. "Duh, I don't know, we always charge this fee". A Nissan Dealer in Chicago told one of our visitors that they have to charge the Nissan advertisement fee and can't drop it or they can face a class action law suit. Nice scam. Where's my bull icon?
Ford dealers use the cryptic term "FDAF/LMDA" on their invoice. "FDAF" stands for "Ford Dealer Advertising Fund", and the "LMDA" stands for Lincoln Mercury Dealer Advertising. Why can't they just disclose it as "ad fee"? I didn't pay an ad fee for my Lexus in 1998 or the Mazda Millenia in 1999. Honda add fees are built into the invoice price, don't let them charge you extra. Other companies choose their own cryptic acronym, like DAA (Dealer Area Advertising), TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertising Fee), HDA, you get the picture. If it ends with an "A", it's most likely an advertising fee. Speaking of advertising, dealers are neither grateful nor shy about plastering their name on the trunk of your shiny new car at a cost of $0 to them. You then spend the next several years advertising their dealership free of charge with your moving billboard. You should charge them a $600 advertising fee for that.
I also have a business, if I was to add a fee to every invoice for advertising it would kill my business and forget about return customer's, after all their selling $60k trucks here...
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