I'm glad someone has noticed that some of us never have anything positive to say with their posts. This was the whole point of my first reply, I enjoy good discussion and yes, will continue to lobby for my particular choice in vehicle. But if the only thing someone can add is insults and challenges, calling people liars and such, then maybe some growing up is in order. Anyone can act juvenile, but thoughtfull, constructive arguments, otherwise known as a debate, can happen without the folks involved being bent out of shape. I for one, will never call out anyone on this board.

My knowledge of trucks comes from 10+ years of spending evry dime and minute of free time I have building and using hard core 4WD's. The last few years have been devoted to the sport of rock crawling, and 90% of the folks that compete have tow rigs. Rigs of all makes, models, colors, etc. I see what works, what doesn't, and why. My choice of truck fits my particular needs, as yours does for you. Defend it if you will, but at least present an argument based on knowledge or fact.

As an aside, this whole business of V10's, PSD's, Duramax's and Cummins being "better" than each other really makes no sense if you really think about it. Unless your motor is built beyond factory specs, and I mean way beyond, the ultimate factor is the gearing of the vehicle. The gears put the power to the ground, and determine at what point in the power band this occurs. I've seen a Toyota 22RE with Marlin crawlers outpull Chevy 350's, HP and torque were not what made it win, the 100 to 1 final drive ratio did it. Look at all the heavy trucks as you go beyond the realm of F-250 and F-350. The final gears get deeper and deeper, and the tow ratings go higher and higher. My V10 is offered in the F-550 as well as multiple choices of diesels. Gears are 4.88's to 5.38's, the motor simply does not matter in towing capacity.

What I am trying to say is that whether it be a diesel or gas motor, the determining factor in strength and moving what you want to move is putting that power to the ground, via the rest of the drivetrain. Our trucks are made to hual heavy at speed. Take my Nav's 4.0 V6, mate an NV4500 and Atlas 2 to it, throw a Klune V behind it and mate it to a Dana 70 with 4.88's in the rear and I could pull anything any F-350 could. It wouldn't do so well at speed but it would do it. Set up properly, you would start twisting splines off axles and popping 4550 u-joints like no tomorrow, and it wouldn't take a huge motor to do it.

I personally think all motor vs. motor arguments are silly if all you are trying to prove is pulling or towing power. I like to stick to the real differences, the fuel systems, ignition systems, intake and exhaust, longevity, maintenence, smoothness, noise, and overall basic design features. If you want to compare motors do it via a motor feature, not via the rest of the drivetrain. Hence the V10 forum, not the "V10 4R100 3.73" forum.

My apologies for such a long post but I think things were getting out of hand on this forum as fas as diesels and V10's outdoing each other in the towing arena. Let's keep things positve and intelligent.

 

I agree totally. I personally have not been here all that long, but while I have, I have learned quite a bit. I have participated in the PSD vs. V-10 debates, and thought it all in fun, until on that last one, someone decided to more or less call me a liar and an ego freak for stating that I can outpull my bosses PSD. If someone doesnt believe me, hey, come and watch. I never said I could outpull all PSD trucks, that would be stupid on my part. And, I dont really care. As long as MY truck will pull what I hook on the back, that is ALL that matters. The thread that post was in wasnt even about PSDs and V-10s, it was about whether a V-10 could outrun a Duramax in a heads up race, which, It can with no problem. I dont call people out, and dont drag race on the street, and think pulling contests are dumb as a box of rocks. None of those proves anything about a vehicle. I used to drag race some, and have seen numerous instances where a better, stronger car was beaten by a better driver. But when someone challenges me on my truthfullness and blatantly tells me I have an ego problem, I get a little upset, as others here have also done in the past. If a person has not actually been there and witnessed the actions of someone else, they have no right at all to call them a liar. I have seen what I would call some pretty tall tales of truck performance on BOTH sides of the V-10/PSD debate, but I have NEVER once lowered my personal standards to the point of calling someone a liar and accusing them of having a "big ego". Hey, I am a pilot, so maybe I do have a big ego at times. Most pilots I know do. BUT, I dont lie to make myself look like a big man on the block, and I sure dont let my "ego" get involved in something as juvenile as whether or not my truck will outrun or outpull your truck. This is my last post on this subject, cause I think it is about beat to death and there is no solution to it. there is always going to be someone who gets bent if anyone says anything bad about their ride. I guess when the moderators start locking people out and deleting posts, as has been stated above WILL happen, maybe that will cure some of this BS childishness. Sorry for the rant!

 

I agree! I believe personal preference more than anything helped my decision to go with the V10. Would I go diesel in the future? depends on the truck and my lifestyle at that time. For now I like what I have and as long as I have young beautiful women staring at my truck when I drive by I'm happy!!!!! I believe they would do it whether I drove a V10 or a diesel!

 

It is simple I had 2 PSD'd 200K miles on one 150K on the other. I use them for work, 80% of my miles are w/ a 27 foot trailer. I track every cent spent on them. In the end my V10 is cheaper to run!! I have never had a lack of power and we can argue the point of which out pulls which all day but the truth be told you guys don't own a V10 so you can only argue a one sided point. Does it really hurt you if someone in the world in your oppinion is not telling the truth? I have not been to the PSD board don't need to go. There are millions of rumors around about the V10 most are wrong, you can tell it did not stop me from buying one so why do you take it a a personal offence.
Hey let hook up that tow rope I have a tractor that will drag you until your whole truck blows up, does that mean it has more HP, or that it can tow a trailer at 75 mph or that I would take it accross country? I tell you what tie your rope to a post and drag all day you will not move so I guess that means you need to buy a post to go to work next time!

 

hey i thought we all agreed to stop the bashing of other people and thier ride? the gears might be a big factor in pulling but there is no way my mustang cobra with 4.56 gears could out pull my PSD with 3.73 gears.

1999 F-250 4x4 PSD S/C Lariat Diablo Delta Chip,Pyrometer
1999 Mustang Cobra 4.56 gears,power pullies,short shifter,timing adjuster,flowmaster exhaust no cat's.

 

No attack just a joke gone wrong

 

In line with CO4x4SD, it is about torque you can exert on the ground at various speeds. Assuming you have similar tire contact patches with similar friction coeff, it is pretty amazing what something like 5.88 gears will do.

The only Ford engine I know of pulling around 20,000 lb or 30,000 lb Class A motorhomes is the V-10. How can this same engine see duty in a 5000 lb pickup and something weighing 5-6x as much? Gear ratio (in a beefed up tranny) more than anything else.

-Jim
2001 E-450 V-10 Superduty

 

 

I'm new to this forum and like it very much. There is a lot of constructive criticism as well as negative. I think I’ll add my constructive two cents in... Having grown in California, in the 70's my older brother used to work MOPAR muscle cars with his freinds(easy Chevy and Ford guy’s...), although not an expert, I did spend allot of time in the garage and drag strips growing up. While Gasoline burning engines typically have more horsepower and make the only solution to a racecar. Diesels were designed for long life and cheaper fuel (hence less refined oil, compared to gasoline) In fact (this is a fact) The German designer (last name Diesel, forgot what his first name was) wanted to make an engine that would run on the "by product" of gasoline, since it was so cheap and did not have a use, other than burning the fuel oil on steam ships and the like. You cannot compare apples to oranges. Diesels clearly do not have the power of Gasoline engines, that is why double the compression is needed, and so much oil is used in the engine, for all that rough torque generated. With so much motor oil in the crankcase and fuel oil being sprayed into the cylinder, which is, what is coating the piston rings. This why Diesels will last so much longer. It is also noted that the Diesel would be nothing with out a turbine (turbo) or blower (supercharger). This is needed since Diesels do not generate much horsepower as compared to gas. That is why all factory cars, trucks and even locomotives come out of the factory with a turbo or blower. If you installed a turbo on a gas engine look out! Imagine a V-10 with a factory turbo ??? Some of other people that posted some these threads are right; it comes down to gearing, in getting all that power to the ground. If you have power and the right gears, then there is nothing stopping you from pulling that house from the foundation.......

 

>If you have power and the right
>gears, then there is nothing stopping you from pulling that
>house from the foundation.......

Kind of like Riggs in Lethal Weapon!


But I think he pulled the house down with his Ch*vy Dually!

 

>The German designer (last
>name Diesel, forgot what his first name was)

Rudolph.

>wanted to make
>an engine that would run on the "by product" of gasoline,
>since it was so cheap and did not have a use, other than
>burning the fuel oil on steam ships and the like.

Not true. Diesel's 1892 patent was for a compression ignition engine that ran on pulverized coal or coal dust, not oil. One early diesel design simply blasted the coal dust into the engine along with the incoming air. There's wasn't a market for gasoline in those pre Model-T days other than for use as a cleaning fluid so there wasn't a need to sell refinery by-products.

In those days, steam ships and railroads generally burned coal.

> Diesels clearly do not have the
>power of Gasoline engines, that is why double the
>compression is needed,

Not true. The high compression is needed to create enough heat to ignite the fuel. For this reason, diesels are also known as "compression-ignition" engines.

> and so much oil is used in the
>engine, for all that rough torque generated.

Not true. The large lubricating oil capacity is needed because of diesel's larger amount of combustion by-products like carbon and acids that must be emulsified. I don't know what you mean by "rough torque". My PSD accelerates and cruises just as smoothly as my 460 gasser does.

> With so much
>motor oil in the crankcase and fuel oil being sprayed into
>the cylinder, which is, what is coating the piston rings.
>This why Diesels will last so much longer.

True. Diesel fuel is oil, and possesses lubricating properties while gasoline is a solvent. Also, the combustion pressures inside the cylinders of diesel engines are less than gasoline engines. That's another reason why they last longer and why you can turbocharge them with pressures that whold destroy gasoline engines.

> It is also noted
>that the Diesel would be nothing with out a turbine (turbo)
>or blower (supercharger).

Diesels are more efficient than gasoline engines, so efficient it's hard to keep them warm in cold weather. They're also the only piston type of internal combustion engine that you can scale up in size almost indefinitely. Think 3-foot bores and 4-foot strokes on large ship diesels.

Different design, operation and uses.

All engines benefit by the use of a blower, gas, diesel, rotary Wankels. To say that without a blower diesels are pretty much worthless is not true.

> If you installed a turbo
>on a gas engine look out!

It's all relative. Yes, a blown V-10 is impressive. It's an excellent engine.

Regards,

-Bill

 

Bill, good post - I learned some things. A couple of comments.

>> Diesels clearly do not have the
>>power of Gasoline engines, that is why double the
>>compression is needed,

>Not true. The high compression is needed to create enough heat to >ignite the fuel. For this reason, diesels are also known >as "compression-ignition" engines.

He is right about the power. By any measure, diesels do not make the power (e.g. HP) of gas engines. They make GOBS of torque, but at such a low RPM it is hard for them to make much HP.

Your point about compression is right, but so is his - higher compression will make more power for a given fuel as long as it does not ignite before the piston is ready to start the downstroke.

>Also, the combustion pressures inside the cylinders of diesel >engines are less than gasoline engines.

I am trying to get your point here. The compression as you stated is a lot higher. 5-6x often compared to gas. Are you talking about the impulse force generated as the fuel burns? I could believe that diesel would burn more slowly and shock the piston and moving parts less.

Thanks for an intersting and mature post on diesel technology!

-Jim
2001 E-450 V-10 Superduty

 

Disels aren't the only engine that can be size up. I have stood in the bore of a natural gas engine and a pumping station, it is hugh. Diesel as a fule did come into play in WWII because the Germans could not refine gas due to stuff falling out of the sky on them. That is also where synthetic oil was brought to the fore front. It seams the Germans had a problem with sinking oil ships about the same time.
With new tech the 2 are becoming very close, I drove the new 6 liter PSD and it is nice.
The thing is for 99% of the drivers the extra cost up front and the cost of the oil change will never be offset by the savings in milage. Knowing that I know a lot of folks that still want a Diesel, why because they want one. For me I have realy gotten used to not hearing my motor all the time and I like the warmth in the winter, I also have never mised the 3000 RPM red line or wanted for more torque so I will stick w/ my V10. Why? because I like it!

 

>and I like the warmth in the winter,

Don't diesels put out as much heat as a gas engine?

2000 F350SDXLT,SRW,RC,5spd man,V10, Front Leveling Kit,4.30 gears, 285/75/16 Wild Country, Moon Roof, Tinted Windows, Blacked out Tails

 

>Don't diesels put out as much heat as a gas engine?

No, they don't. They run cold and you have to go the exra step in the winter to keep them warm. That's why a lot of the big diesel rigs have shutters or covers in front of the radiator. The Ford PSDs have a valve that partially closes and blocks the exhaust pipe to assist in warm ups. You wouldn't guess that diesels run colder than gassers but it's true when they're not working hard. Diesels definitely have their issues once the temperatures drop in the northern winter.

best,

-Bill

----------------------------------
2002 F-250 S/Cab Short Bed PSD 4x4 7.3L. SCMT +80 HP, AFE Magnum, 6,800 lbs.
1996 F-250 S/Cab Long Bed 460. E4OD auto, 4.10 posi, Air-Lift suspension, K&N filter in modified intake box, modified ignition advance curve, Edelbrock 2x61 mm throttle body, L&L headers, 3" exhaust system, cat & Flowmaster 70, modified MAF meter. 7,700 lbs GVW, 5,700 lbs.
{E\...F}