Years ago I saw a demonstration of a product at a county fair that changed my car maintenance habits. There was a fellow standing next to a chevy straight-6 idling with no oil pan attached. It had been idling for over 4 hours without lubrication. ... barely an oil drip from the crank case. On his table he had an electric motor, a lever w/handle-grip, several oils and additives, and a box of sleeve bearings. His demonstration was simple: Lubricate the bearing and apply leveraged pressure on it while it turned.

I was a Teflon addict, having used it from its introduction, on an early year Porsche 924. The Teflon worked well and was so effective that idling RPMs increased and the engine ran so cool that it was difficult to heat the cabin on a very cold day. I never experienced the oil port clogging that I heard of. (I use Castol GTX btw)

Anyway, I tried my hand to the fellow's bearing scorcher and wore out so many bearings that he desperately asked if I could save some for him to get through the rest of the day. Oops! One problem, I couldn't get the MotorKoted bearings to flatten no matter what I did. The Teflon acted like everything else.

I was so intrigued that I bought a couple of quarts and treated my '91 minivan, '86 station wagon, and some antique Ford tractors. Well, as expected, idle became smoother and the engines ran cooler, just like with Teflon. No more hard cranking with the antiques either. But, the minivan ran so cool that I could not get the cabin to warm up on a cold day. I resorted to a sheet of cardboard behind the grill in winter. Highway mileage increased from 19 to 21 MPG under a very full load.

One hot 95 degree summer day, while cruising through Minneapolis, the electric radiator fan would not engage, and the transmission heat sensor shut down the engine. It was a holiday. I needed to get back to Chicago by the next day for work. My son reminded me of the MotorKoted straight-six running without oil. What a challenge... When the transmission cooled, we set out for home, and kept our speed up to cool the trans fluid just enough so the transmission sensor wouldn't shut us down again. We had to make a few unexpected stops in the heat of the day, but made it home just fine.

Years later I had a certified GM mechanic friend replace a leaky trans fluid cooler and pan gasket for me. He commented how clean and new the engine looked inside at 130K. He was sparked to buy a similar (non-GM) minivan and Motorkote the engine.

Well, that became a regular habit over the past 10 years. We just MotorKoted stuff and forgot about it. I gave the '91 minivan to a friend this summer and he carted his family of 8 to Texas and back in hot weather. Ran like a champ. However my son started a landscape business and invested $7K in a commercial ZTR mower. After a long break-in period he added Motorkote to the Kohler engine and hydraulic system. Within a week he said his fuel consumption dropped from 2 full tanks of gas to only ONE a day!!! I wouldn't have believed it, except I saw the second side-tank still full after mowing all day.

Motokote is hard to find. I bought it by the gallon directly from the professor that invented the stuff (http://www.motorkote.com), but recently a new Meijers nearby began selling it, so I get it there.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else has used the stuff and whether they had any comments. I don't know of any other product that is as effective. I hope you guys find this useful, and I thank you for your advice regarding our pickup.

Dave

 

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to raise the BS flag on this one. Heat for your heater core comes off the cylinder walls and cylinder heads where coolant flows over the heated parts. It comes directly from the heat of combustion, not from friction in the engine. Saying you couldn't get cabin heat is like saying your engine wasn't running.

Chlorine base additives, as I suspect this is, do form an almost glasslike surface on the bearings. But what they dont tell you is that is forms acid and drops the TBN like a rock. In an open oil pan test this doesn't happen since the blowby is vented into the atmosphere. Also, after this test was complete he didn't inspect the cylinder walls or valvetrain for wear, did he? Also, if the valvetrain wasn't ticking he was getting oil pressure from some other source...

 

I'd rather raise Old Glory... and you are certainly entitled to a personal science, though limited somewhat. What you say is true, in a confined perspective. You attempt to apply the K.I.S.S. principal where detail is important. Thus, the last two words somehow got swapped.

Nonetheless, if you have ever had experience with modern aluminum engines in the Northern Midwest, you would know that in cold weather they are very difficult to warm up, regardless of the combustion process at idle.

When you reduce friction of any kind, you definitely reduce heat output.

Less work to be done, less calories expended, less heat produced, less fuel consumed, less combustion, etc.

Heat is produced in liquids just by agitation and compression alone, not by combustion. Examine what happens with a hydromatic transmission, where the opposing parts never come in direct contact (unless overdrive is engaged), and there is NO combustion. There is great friction created by molecular collision of the opposing turbines with the oil and the friction is strong enough to move an entire vehicle at high speeds. We find a trans cooler is strapped to the radiator to cool the oil from this combustion-free device.

... and I can bring water to a boil with a Vitamix in a few minutes, just by whipping it with a blade assembly. If you want a real hands-on demonstration.

My point: whatever heat is produced by oil agitation, cylinder ring stroking, and bearing friction is greatly reduced from the equation at low temps. If it's cold enough to cool the aluminum block merely by convection, you certainly are going to have a much harder time bringing the water temp high enough to kick the thermostat open. The aluminum block/pan/head/trans vents that heat outward like a light bulb. ... and how relatively dark it is ... when it's freezing outside and the wind is blowing.

Voila, limited or no water flow means no cabin heat.

Now if you reduce friction ... and who knows how the MotorKote guy/product achieves it ... you reduce heat. If it took 5 minutes to warm up the van before at idle, and now I can't get it warm unless I drive it at higher RPMs, how can you explain that? Moving air temp from 0 to 80 degrees in a frozen metal tank is not an easy task to begin with. Cut the heat gain of a marginal system (can't fry eggs, only warms your tootsies), and you may never have enough output to warm the cabin.

It's not just the heat in the cabin. The temp gauge mimicks what my body feels subjectively. So, there goes my faulty subjective experience. We can throw that out the door if you'd like ... but the head temperature gauge doesn't lie. It won't come up to normal unless the engine does a LOT of work now.

I just went to the MotorKote web site and noticed that they have added a slew of testimonials by fertilizers like me. I appreciate your comment and your boldness, so no offense taken, or intended.

btw- examination of cylinder walls from the pan side showed no unusual wear, scratches, scoring, or patterns. Engine is still going strong, so no need to break it down to replace rings, etc.

Motorkote is not classified as an engine treatment, such as Teflon, which leaves a hardened deposit behind. They call it a hyper-lubricant instead. Perhaps it creates a different (more liquid) molecular bond, much like magnetic oils do, instead of a static bond like Teflon. Thus I would anticipate no clogging of oil ports.

... and one other snag: The Kohler engine is air cooled. The mileage just about doubled after we reduced all that small-engine friction. Now that's just plain scary ...

Check it out. It's good stuff.

Dave

I've heard we can drive over 30 MPH in an automobile, and not suffocate.

 

Difficult to warmup a aluminum engine in the NorthWest....you're kidding right?

I noticed that the site claims a 31 hp increase. I also missed seeing any conventional oils used in any testing other than some 10wt oils.

I also cannot seem to find any MSDS listing for this stuff.

Not to mention that the type of no-oil pan test has been done time and time again by others, dura-lube and z-max come to mind at the moment.

Sorry, I have a hard time buying this BS, also considering that I've seen these statements re-iterated over and over with other "miracle additives".

 

Considering that the site does not give an MSDS, considering that the inventor/manufacturer of Teflon does not endorse or recommend Teflon in an engine environment, considering that clorinated parafinics are corrosive( if it contains any, but who would know), this wreaks the name snake oil. Unless you are willing to post details of the formulation, it is snake oil. So, what is your relationship with Motorkote? And before you want to question my "personal science", you might want to know, it's what I do for a living.

Lets see, new user with 10 posts, hawking a product on the FTE, I think I hear a QUACK! BrianA , your comments, please.

 

After a bit o reasearch on bitog, it was determined that Motorkote had at one time claimed to have twice the amount of teflon in addition to clorinated compounds, and then all of a sudden removed all such info from the bottles. But they still say to shake before use....

Who knows, maybe they changed formulations...I doubt it.

Good thing I brought my duck gun!

Nothing more effective at getting the Oil and Lube forum fired up, than a couple of stray quacking sounds!

We must all be duck hunters!

 

Looks like the MotorKote maker is a pretty lucritive and renowned quack too: http://www.motorkote.com/NewsAndEvents.htm. Let's ridicule him for being a lot more wealthy than us gear-heads. He obviously doesn't know what he's doing. I'll tell him so if I ever get to meet him.

Well, it's too bad you fellas have failed the 30 MPH test again. Maybe next time ... finger out of your nose? ... and you won't suffocate. And don't post too soon after group therapy, OK? People are beginning to talk.

So, you make personal science your living, eh? I should have thought so, because you formed your opinion before trying/testing the product, then called yourself a scientist. Tsk-tsk. So what are your credentials? Show me the matchbook or magazine ad, so I can see it myself, and believe. I would bother to attach my resume, but I fear that half of the words you couldn't spell, and the other half you couldn't read. ;-)

No offense fellas. Just going with the flow here in good banter. It's fun if you don't get serious with insults. I've got a Masters degree from IIT, had designed recon equipment for the SR-71 and Space Shuttle, wrote smog-test software for Snap-On Tools, (techy-science stuff from a 4 page resume') and am currently looking for custom downpipe info for the church Ford pickup, used for landscaping. That's why only 10, er 11 posts. Most of my time on the web is spent creating web sites (ex: www.myhealthyherbs.com) or doing research: medical, dental, software, networking, mechanical ... sorry, there I go again with those big words. Try to sound them out fo-ne-ti-kol-ee. Mom will explain the rest later.

Anyway, I wanted to return a favor ... for the help some generous fellas here gave regarding exhaust components. I really like MotorKote, and I'd like to share my experience with the product, just like others have, before they were likely flamed by some kids on a bug hunt. It's that simple. I think it bailed me out of some serious engine wear while under stress. I didn't jot all the abuse the vehicle had taken since '91: towing an antique tractor with 8 passengers and luggage, multiple fan failures on hot summer days, etc.

So, the rest of you good folks ... take it as it was intended, and let the scoffers run at the mouth as they have. I'm not offended if one of you finds some use for it.

But please, "Rutsy", "Superderangedman" and "Flush", don't tell us that any of you have technical degrees or skills, other than web sniping. We might have to call your bosses, er ... teachers, and tell them that you have been away from school too long, and posing as adults.

Now anytime you boys want to watch a '91 Chrysler minivan NOT warm up, I can contact the new owner in Northern Illinois, and on that cold and blustery "10 below" night you can freeze your backsides with your fingers in your noses, ... while I write sermons and commentaries about you, by the fireside. Ha-ha!

btw-for the ego impaired: Side-by-side comparisons with Slick-50 yielded a significant difference in affect on the bearings, and MotorKote required no burn-in to see spontaneous results. AND, if that's the formula (that you took as Gospel from the net, naughty-naughty ... look flying saucers!) which makes the superior product, why rail? ... and you've obviously have owned only one truck that overheats at idle in the dead-of-winter in Alaska becasue you've never changed the oil, right?

Check your map and climate charts fella. Some of the coldest temperatures in the continental U.S. are in the Northern Midwest. You know the difference between the "Northwest" and the "Northern Midwest". I am partially blind and can't spell for beans, but that's a difference of about, say, 1500 to 2000 miles and 30 degrees fahrenheit? No wonder you don't know what I'm talking about. Hey, it can happen to the best of us.

... and your quick research might have something there. If there is an ounce of fact in it. As we all know, everything you read on the internet must be true.

Maybe I got my beloved Teflon back after all. ;-)

OK, you can put the corks back in your 'duck guns' now boys. Mom's out buying groceries. This was fun.

Now, has anybody had any REAL experience with MotoKote, other than these two guys that obviously haven't ... but wish they did?

Is there any Teflon in it? I remember seeing a whitish goo run from the bottom of the Slick-50 bottle way back, when I forgot to shake it, oops! But I don't see that stuff in the clear MotorKote bottle. New formula?

I just found this in a web search. Try it on for size. http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...5;t=000486;p=1

Thanks for the challenge, guys! Have a great day in Him.
Rev-er-end Dave

 

Re-read all the posts there. It was someone's conjecture (a guess), not fact, that it had PTFE. The manufacturer says no PTFE in the product:

"MOTORKOTE™ is a pure synthetic concentrate and contains no PTFE, silicone, graphite or molybdenum."

So now what? The manufacturer lies, you say, based on someone's guess? You have deemed that poster's conjecture to be fact ... doh... Are you being earnest here?

I guess all those UFO posts must be real then, huh. Someone somewhere has determined that you might be an alien too. I saw it in a forum. Ha-ha. No, wait, let me confess first, please! I'm an alien and I want you to use Motorkote so the universe can laugh at you when your car gets better mileage and the engine has less wear. It rubs against the Evil Empire to reduce friction, so don't do it.

You know how the saying goes. "Certain things are inevitable: Death, taxes and friction."

Well, I should have stayed in the exhaust forum. There was a lot less gas emited there.

 

Ok how's this, you send in a UOA and prove it. Get the TBN tested with it. Then you will know. I have a '92 Explorer with 200,000 miles that's been driven hard it's whole life, and still runs like a top. It has used conventional oil, changed every 3000 miles, it's whole life. So the fact that your POS old Chrysler minivan still runs means nothing, especially since you haven't told us how many miles it has. Just because you diluted good oil with some additive doesn't mean that the additive did anything.

Get the UOA. Put up or shut up.

 

Dang, I forgot, we are totally clueless on this board, and are easily duped into thinking that conventional and synthetics are not worth the can they are in and therfore we "need" another miracle in a can.

Isn't funny how these miracle additive threads always start....it's like there is a word document with blanks where the name of the product should go.

BTW, the stuff is nothing more than Group III base stock with some simple additives, hardly earth shattering.



Nothing short of textbook sales attempts on forums such as this.

 

I would suggest if you have the interest, to go to the link at BITOG and read it completely. To sum it up, they also believe it to be snake oil. You might want to compare the writings of Dear Dave to Oilmeup and Copafeel. Seems they are the same guy and he has been banned from BITOG.

Dear Dave. We talk and help each other here at the FTE. We don't advertize products and we don't accept unsolicited referals. This is clearly noted on the menu page. Please conform to the guidelines set out by the good folks at FTE.
Thanks

Oh yeah, the door to my office reads : Executive Engineer. I have seven degrees of which two are Masters.

 

You have a lot at stake claiming that it doesn't work, and that this is what you do for a living. Why don't you exercise your expertise and do it yourself? You boast, then challenge. Maybe their's nothing under that hood.

I have used the product, and the small engine test was so remarkable, that I could care less what you demand. We'll continue to use it until science proves that we didn't witness what we have.

I offered a friendly tip, based on over 10 years of use, in many engines, and you say that now I have to prove it to you? Get real. Who do you think you are?

C'mon, show us your stuff, Rusty. This is supposed to be your domain, so go for it. Prove it doesn't work. (I'll give you my sincere appreciation, guaranteed)

Now you haven't put up anything but words, backed by zero experience with the product. I'm an ordained minister, and can live with my real-life experience, and my conscience, btw. I know what I know, and you are guessing. Big difference.

So where's YOUR cards, Amigo? I don't see anything on the table, but a lot of empty casings and a smoking gun.

... and I was reluctant to mention the Chrysler brand becasue it has enough other baggage that comes with our experience, but the engine has done quite well for a well-tortured 3.0L hauling antique tractors and 8 bodies with luggage all across the U.S.

 

... and one of mine says "Regional Director", and another, "President" ... and another, just "Dave".

It must be tough being a manufacturing slave. ;-) ... been there.

Now who's telling a yarn. You have 7 degrees ... and Motorkote doesn't work.

Sound like we're getting pretty deep here changing oil again.

 

My second UOA is listed a little down the page in the oil and lube forum. I would suggest you read it. This is from conventional oil without any snake oil additives.

You still have not told us how many miles your minivan has.

OBTW, my business card says president and owner.

 

I made it easy!

bitog