I read the replies to Oilyowl's plan to use Ford's twin I-beams under an F-3, 51 Ford.

Although I'm not a fan of Ford's twin I-beam, and when purchase time came up in 1998 to buy a new F-250, I chose the F-250LD rather than the F-250 super duty. I have no regrets. The A-frame front suspension makes the truck steer like a sports car, and I still have a good stiff suspension for hauling. My previous F-250 with the twin I-beams didn't handle near as good.

I also, have a 51 Ford truck. It is an F-8. I'm planning to put the body onto an '84 E-350 dually chassis from a former ambulance. As you well know it is a twin I-beam suspended chassis.

My plans are more to have a cool hauler rather than a low profile street machine. That's not to say I won't do some cruising with it. It will be a dually fat fendered flair side with a 460 & C-6.

Currently, I'm restoring a 1961 Case 310 crawler/loader. Tonight I made the maiden trip down the lane with it after rebuilding the engine and undercarriages. I still need to put the sheetmetal and loader back on before it is finished. Hopefully, next summer I'll take it to the tractor shows. The plan is to pull my 24' gooseneck with the crawler on it pulled by the '51 F-8 sitting on the '84 E-350/460/C-6.

I don't think that I would add a twin I-beam under an old truck, but I would and will use a late model chassis to get all the good stuff like disk brakes, front steer, power steering, within the frame gas tanks and other late model niceties.

Perhaps some of the criticisms of oilyowl's plan may have been a bit too stinging.

Ken McWilliams
Dayton, OH

 

AmeriKen,

I think your plan to put the old body on the newer chassis is quite viable.

How do the front tread-width's compare? Are you going to be able to get the wheels to stay within the fenders OK? A lot of the old trucks had the front wheels tracking with the inside rear dual wheel. Where many later trucks have the front wheels tracking with the outside dual rear wheel.

You sound like quite an experienced builder, so the body switch is probably within your capabillities, and THIS has been done before.

I was the guy that gave 'oilyowl' all the 'grief' because I was worried that he was starting something that might be beyond his capabilities. I've been around a long time and have NEVER seen a Twin-I-Beam adapted into an old frame, which is what he was proposing. I told him to measure, measure, and measure again, because the first cut IS sometimes the point of no return. It doesn't bother me somehow to see a late model Twin-I-Beam chopped up, but to see an old '52 F-3 survive this long and then get ruined gives me chills.

("If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something!")

Maybe words to ponder when starting vast projects.

Good luck, and be safe.

BobJonesSpecial

 

I figure I might as well throw in a few words here as well. I'm actually one that is for trying to put a set of I-beams under my old truck. For a while I had side tracked the idea due to the additional work it would have taken, but after hearing paul (oilyowl) talk about it, I am looking more seriously at it.

I have broken out my manuals for my 70's trucks and found that you can very easily swap between the 5 bolt and 8 bolt front hubs.. they use the same spindles. As well, I would have the option for HD disc brake and a stock sway bar. I currently have a completely sandblasted, painted, rebushed, and reassembled '79 F-150 chassis from another project, that I think could be a viable donor. All I'd need to do is find a F-250 in a junkyard to pull a set of rotors and calipers (to be overhauled) and I'd have a 3/4 ton clip with power steering, disc brakes, sway bar, and motor mounts that are made for the engine I'll be using. I think honestly this weekend, I'll be breaking out the tape measure and seeing if I could make this work.

Go ahead and fire away, I'm certain we'll hear some comments and critisms, but I guess I don't see this as being any worse than any other front end swap. Personally I like the idea of using a Ford truck clip, under my Ford.

 

BobJonesSpecial:

I have 2 bodies from which to draw, a 51 F-5 and a 51 F-8. The F-8 is an ex-fire truck with only 24K miles. The F-5 is a farm truck with 75K miles. Neither had beds on them when purchased.

The fenders on the F-8 and F-5 are wider than for the pickup trucks. I haven't measured the the F-5 fenders yet, because they weren't on the truck, but loose. I did notice, however, that the running boards on the F-8 has more ribs on it, and it wider than on the F-5.

I haven't looked in detail yet, because I'm still in the "accumulation of project materials" materials stage.

I will be using fenders off of a '56 flairside for the rear. The bed and tail gate will be custom made on a brake press. I'll widen the bed a little, and thentub it to clear the inner dual. I may have to section the rear fenders and widen them, but that is yet to be determined.

I've have to discipline myself to get this crawler finished before starting on the truck. If I start too many projects, I may not get any done.

I have not quite finalized my plan either. The E-350 chassis I have is a "stretch" because it had a full size ambulance box on it. As I wrote above, I'm still accumulating project stuff. I have 2 bodies, and if a third one is found before commencing the project, I may follow after my mentor "IronDragon" and make it a "CrewCab" dually. I've been watching his progress closely and seeing how he does it.

There was a 49 Ford pickup (regular cab) dually on EBAY a few weeks ago that used a 460/C-6 with Chebby 1 ton suspension. It looked like it had Chebby rear fenders too. It was too pricey for me ($12K), but I saved all the pictures to look at later. It was built to haul with a 2" receiver hitch and a bed mounted ball for a gooseneck - just what I'm planning to do.

 

The reason that I decided to abandon the beam idea is there are just too many things that could go wrong.
The difference in width, doner f250 33,3/4 frame width, f-3 32 inch width, could be overcome, and still kep the wheels within the fenders. The width (ouside tread to outside tread )would be
69 inches rather than the stock 64 inches.
But the big problem that I found is keeping the kingpins verticle with about 1 degree of caster. I was going to add some of the doner frame to the side of the f-3 frame, but could not see how to align it so the radias rods would line up.
I will have to do a rethink. I have spent considerable time on this swap, and cant seem to figure it out, yet
Irondragon79, let me know how your measuring goes.

Paul.

 

Paul, I should have some time to get some measuring done this weekend, I'll let you know what I come up with. One thing that I think may make my swap (if I carry through with it) a bit differant, and potentially easier is that since I have to replace all the cab mount towers, plan on replacing all the frame cross members, and need to lengthen the frame for my stretch... that I could take the one more step and actually widen the stock frame.

In all honesty, it might be simpler for me to use a complete modern chassis, but even then I'd need to alter it for the proper wheelbase, and making it fit my F-3 body.. Either way I'd have a lot of work, but you all know I'm up for a challenge. We'll see. I just gotta do my homework before I do anything.

 

Wow, I've got to be careful now, I didn't realize I had a following. Guess I had better not screw this truck up too bad. Guess that must mean I look like I know what I'm doing Oh well, I'll take it as a complement.

 

Irondragon;

I have seen your gallery, and you should be proud, You are doing
a great job.

Paul.

 

Well, went home this weekend and had a chance to get out in the garage for a bit, although I didn't get much actual work done on the truck, I did do some measuring and planning. I'm thinking that I could probably make a twin I-beam setup work on my old truck, but with the recent possibility of selling my '79 F-150 project, that I may opt getting a late model 3/4 ton or 1 ton chassis and put my body on that. I think this route will only mean the possibility of making only one set of cuts to shorten the frame to the right wheelbase, and not muliple cuts. Plus my original frame has already had some cutting and welding done on it that I would need to repair. Not sure if after all that work if it would hold up to the abuse I think I could put it through.

Who knows, depending on what I can find, I just might try and drag home a dually chassis

 

I used an I-beam frame under my 55 F-100 and found it to be a lot easier to swap frames than to trying to graft I-beams to the original frame. I’m not sure that the old frame could have handled all that mass and weight used in the newer suspension. With all the flex and twist in the old frame and trying to tie it to a very rigid I-beam suspension, I felt it would be an ongoing battle fighting the stress cracks.

The old I beams were tough and though they don't give you sports car handling, it is a considerable improvement over the original straight axle and at the same time keeping it a truck. My project has been on hold now for over a year, sidetracked by other vents, but I hope to be back on track by next spring.

 

Yeah, I think the thought of dealing with repeated stress cracks is what is leading me away from the idea of subframing my truck, and to go with a newer frame. I know my plans are to make my truck a fully functional 3/4 ton, or even a one ton that I could use as a towing vehical if needed. I think I'd be a bit worried about trying to put a sub-framed and stretched original frame to that test. I think my best bet is to find a 70's or 80's F-250/350 frame from and extended cab, and then shorten if to fit my wheelbase. that will give me better suspension, better rear axle, disc brakes, power steering, and sway bars, as well as a place to put a gas tank. The more I think of this, I think I'd rather play it safe than sorry