Let me say right up front that I caused this problem, I'm pretty sure of that.

About 2 weeks ago my van sat unused for a week and wouldnt start, battery at about 10 volts and so a jump start got me going. Fine ever since.

I had been planning to add a second battery anyway, I already had the frame mount battery tray installed, so I just added a battery and ran a large power wire to the starter, parallel with the battery. No problems, been driving it for a week.

Here's where I screwed up:

I had temporarily used a nylon strap to hold the battery in place physically. I had PLANNED on buying a hold down bar or strap and then I forgot...life got in the way. Drove it around like I said, for a week. No problems.

Today I drove on some very bumpy brick roads in our little downtown area and the van just died.

When I tried to restart it, the starter engages, and turns continuously until I turn the key to OFF. Returning the ignition to simply ON after twisting it, the starter keeps running.

Everything else seems to be working fine, no codes, no check lights.

I had it $towed$
home and on close inspection under the body, the battery I added had slid sideways a bit and the top positive post had contacted the sheet metal underneath the floor, and the point of contact is scorched so it did short out momentarily as the frame and body moved just enough to contact the battery positive post connector.

SO.....

I assume something like a relay, fuse, or fusible link has been tripped.

I checked everything obvious like the fuel pump relay, that associated fuse, and all fuses in the power distribution panel. All are good. I dont hear the fuel pump running but I have NEVER been able to hear the fuel pump pressure up. I took the doghouse off and now I am able to hear something operate when I turn the key on, but its coming from the engine, not the fuel tank.


NOW....getting back to the battery when it failed a week earlier (without any warning), when I disconnect and reconnect the main battery, (I have since disconnected and removed the aux battery) there is a definite noticeable arc, and there is a click, the headlights flash briefly indicating PCM is alive, and I have about 800 milliamps of current flowing with nothing powered on. This may have been the cause of the original dead battery, or...maybe not. I dont know what the parasitic standby drain of these vehicles is supposed to be.

I called the local dealer and will have it towed in Monday, (open on MLK Day) and have them look at it, assuming I can't figure it out by then.

I have to have this thing running, otherwise my life mostly comes to a stand still. I even called work and told them I need a couple days off to deal with this.

Does anyone know what can cause the starter to keep running, but then shut off when you return the key to off? I hope its just a starter issue, and maybe a fuel pump relay or fuse, or fusible link.

Wish me luck...we have no taxi service here, and the few people I know around here all work and have lives of their own. I have no family here, so it looks like I may be in deep doo-doo on this.

 

My '96 Savana from Hell once had the starter drive shoot the starter gear out and there it would stay after the engine started. It would disengage maybe 5 minutes later or so. But my issue was a mechanical starter drive problem.

You are saying that your starter stays on--is your engine starting or is it dead or disabled? Yours sounds more like an electrical problem. I am guessing that you could certainly have a sticking electrical relay in the system, maybe fried by the electrical short.

Good luck...
George

 

The engine does NOT start. Everything looks normal with key on. All systems are go.

When I rotate the key to start, the starter engages strongly, and spins the motor.

But it does NOT start. After a few or several seconds, I return the key to ON (RUN), and the starter KEEPS turning the engine strongly.

When I fully rotate the key to OFF, the starter stops spinning and everything returns to normal.

For a few weeks I have noticed the ignition key was sometimes difficult to remove from the ignition, but everything else seemed completely normal.



This is a puzzler for me....

 

Trying to think my way through this, and it's not making much sense. Secondary battery positive terminal shorts to ground which completes the circuit. I don't see how this could affect anything else though.

Very interested in seeing the solution and how this all happened.

 

sorry was posting a comment but then saw your second comment so deleted mine as it didnt apply

 

Yeah me too...

One more thing, I had installed a 25 amp self-resetting circuit breaker in the line from the aux battery to the starter. At first glance, you might wonder why?

I did this on my old motorhome years ago and it worked fine. The principle is simple:

When the vehicle is sitting and not running, you have 2 batteries in parallel, in my case, sharing the output from my rooftop solar panel and charge controller, such as when camping or parked for days unused.

When you engage the starter, the breaker kicks out, and only the main battery is used to start the engine. As normal.

After about 10 seconds, the thermal self-resetting action in the breaker resets, and now that second battery benefits from charge current from the alternator, sharing that charge between the two batteries. (yes, there are dual battery relays that do essentially the same thing)

Also, if there is a short somewhere in the aux circuit, the main battery is protected, and vise versa.

In fact, when I initially had this issue today, I checked that breaker and it had tripped open.

But then of course, it reset and possibly the short circuit current surge damaged the starter relay...just not sure at this point.

If I had not forgotten to securely mount the battery I'm certain none of this would have happened....I'm gonna end up paying the 'stupid tax' on this for sure...

 

Thanks....any input is welcome.

Even if you want to call me dumb...

 

Hmmmm....I wonder if this issue is being caused at least partly by the ignition switch....it seems to be a bit rough and 'catch' when turning it to start and back to run....and it has been hard to remove the key sometimes.

I assume the dealer will be able to check this...

Oh well...sometime Monday I might get to find out.

 

Good gosh I wish those seeking help would list their vehicle year and chassis INSIDE the post!!!

Sounds like the ignition switch could be at fault but I'd use an EVTM to check any and all fuses/fusible links to the ignition system or ECM that might be affected but the battery shorting directly to ground as you experienced. With more vehicle info I could check my EVTM's for fuses etc to check.

OTOH not many of us here haven't done something similar with your battery securing in place---ask me about swapping steering columns in my sloping driveway without chocks or setting the parking brake.

 

Hey thanks, and I have that book, but its no help really...and I dont have an assistant to do this underneath while I do that at the key or whatever scenario is needed. Also, I dont have the time to do this, the time to chase parts, the tools, or a good place to do this, and I have to have it running, ASAP. I borrowed a 1982 pickup from a friend to get me around in the interim. I have to hit the road in my work truck and will be gone and cant piddle with this in the evenings after work or whatever.

BTW, my van is listed on my signature line...its a 2009 E-250 Cargo. I think you told me once upon a time that you have that 'feature' turned off.

But..thats not MY fault...my van make and model is listed and visible to the other 485,129 members...

Really, I posted this more as a caution to anyone else, rather than a 'help me' article.

Lesson learned: Don't be a ******* and forget something! If you do, you might get to pay a 'stupid tax' like me!



edit: Now thats weird, the board software replaced my word that started with 'dumb' and ended with another word for mule. Funny...that word has been used a LOT on primetime broadcast tv, especially on the old 'That 70's Show', when Red would tell Eric just exactly what he thought of him. I guess its now an expletive on this board?

 

I've had 2 switches go bad on older GM products (67 Chevelle and 71 GMC).

Symptoms were similar: turn to "start", engine would crank and sound like it started (different from yours I know) but engine would quit as soon as I let the key go back to "in/run"

The Chevelle switch was just plain worn out I think.

The GMC switch was ruined when the battery + lead melted and shorted on the exhaust manifold. Similar root cause to yours maybe?

No real help here - food for thought. Curious about results when you get it fixed.

 

Its sure possible....the van was picked up by the shop today and they will let me know...when I get it back, I'll sure post the results.

Thanks!

 

$797.30

Fuel pump and fuel pump control module, and labor of course.

Sure could have been worse....but the main thing is, that I have my van back!

 

Wow, quite a bill over a simple short. Did they offer any explanation as to why that happened?

 

They told me it took a few hours to figure out what was wrong. He said that the system was apparently showing good on all the tests, but was only working intermittently.

I feel pretty sure that the intermittent high-current short that was occurring due to my error as previously mentioned, contributed to the module and/or fuel pump going south, and I was told that it's a recommended procedure to replace both the fuel pump and the fuel pump control module when either fails, to save another service call later on. That seems to make sense to me, considering its got 116,000 miles.

About a month ago, (before I mounted the aux battery) I noticed an occasional intermittent throttle response when I was stopping at stop lights and such...it's certainly possible that it was having issues and the electrical surge/short just put it in the dumper.

It seems the PCM and other expensive electronics were spared...and that's a good thing.

While it was in the shop, I asked them about a sparkplug/tuneup service, and told him I did not know whether that had ever been done (I bought the van with 104,000 on the clock).

He called later to say they pulled a couple plugs and they looked new so they did not charge me for that service.

At any rate, I am really glad to have this van back....it was missed!