Downshift bump/clunk
#1
02-16-2015, 01:17 AM
Downshift bump/clunk
I have searched and have found a few threads on various transmission shifting issues. However nothing really pertaining to 13+ trucks that is only happening under certain conditions. It seems earlier trucks with problems were experiencing it all the time, not intermittent.
Here's what I got....
This only happens when:
- temp is 20 degrees or colder
- Truck has been sitting and is cold
- Trans temp under 70-80 degrees
- Only happens on the 3 to 2 DOWNshift when cold
The first few downshifts from 3 to 2 have a slight clunk/bump to them...just enough to feel it. After the first few initial downshifts from 3 to 2, it will not do it then, shifts fine and smooth. After a minutes of driving it, it will not do it until the next time it meets the list of items above. If I skip this gear manually until it has warmed up, it will not do it when returning to it.
-All other gears both up and down shifting feel good just the 3 to 2 when it does happen.
Once the transmission is warm or the temp is warmer outside the problem is non-existent and transmission shifts great in all gears and is smooth as butter!
I know little things like this that only happen here and there can be hard to pin point, especially for the dealer.
It looks like this TSB does NOT pertain to 15' year trucks but I found some interesting points in it on describing what I am feeling. Highlighted in red.
Any ideas?
Here's what I got....
This only happens when:
- temp is 20 degrees or colder
- Truck has been sitting and is cold
- Trans temp under 70-80 degrees
- Only happens on the 3 to 2 DOWNshift when cold
The first few downshifts from 3 to 2 have a slight clunk/bump to them...just enough to feel it. After the first few initial downshifts from 3 to 2, it will not do it then, shifts fine and smooth. After a minutes of driving it, it will not do it until the next time it meets the list of items above. If I skip this gear manually until it has warmed up, it will not do it when returning to it.
-All other gears both up and down shifting feel good just the 3 to 2 when it does happen.
Once the transmission is warm or the temp is warmer outside the problem is non-existent and transmission shifts great in all gears and is smooth as butter!
I know little things like this that only happen here and there can be hard to pin point, especially for the dealer.
It looks like this TSB does NOT pertain to 15' year trucks but I found some interesting points in it on describing what I am feeling. Highlighted in red.
The latest TSB for the PCM that I'm aware of is 12-5-12 that supersedes 11-4-21. I had it taken care of under warranty and it corrected the erratic shifting mentioned in this thread.
TSB 12-5-12
ISSUE:
Some 2011-2012 F-Super Duty vehicles equipped with a 6.7L engine and built on or before 5/15/2012 may exhibit diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P0181. Refer to the Calibration Content for additional calibration updates.
ACTION:
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
Please run Oasis using the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) to search for open Field Service Actions (FSA) and claim reprogramming updates against open FSA's when applicable. The latest level includes all previous enhancements released in prior calibration levels.
Reprogram the powertrain control module (PCM) and the transmission control module (TCM) to the latest calibration using IDS release 79.01 and higher. This new calibration is not included in the VCM 2012.5 DVD. Calibration files may also be obtained at Buy Motorcraft Parts Online | Official Motorcraft Auto Parts Site | FordParts.com.
NOTE: PLEASE ADVISE THE CUSTOMER THAT THIS VEHICLE IS EQUIPPED WITH AN ADAPTIVE TRANSMISSION SHIFT STRATEGY WHICH ALLOWS THE VEHICLE'S COMPUTER TO LEARN THE TRANSMISSION'S UNIQUE PARAMETERS AND IMPROVE SHIFT QUALITY. WHEN THE ADAPTIVE STRATEGY IS RESET, THE COMPUTER WILL BEGIN A RE-LEARNING PROCESS. THIS RE-LEARNING PROCESS MAY RESULT IN FIRMER THAN NORMAL UPSHIFTS AND DOWNSHIFTS FOR SEVERAL DAYS.
The Calibration Update Contains Improvement Actions And Enhancements To Address The Following:
False DTC P0181 (fuel temperature sensor A circuit range/performance)
Previously Released - Calibration Content
Included in IDS software release 74.03 and higher contained improvement actions and enhancements to address the following:
Calibration Content - Pick Up Truck (non-chassis cab) Vehicles Built On Or Before 3/7/2012
Runs rough/misfire during diesel particulate filter (DPF) regeneration
Calibration Content - Vehicles Built On Or Before 7/25/2011
False DTC P0884 (PCM/TCM power input signal intermittent)
Calibration Content - Vehicles Built On Or Before 5/31/2010
DTC P0134 O2 sensor circuit no activity detected (bank 1, sensor 1)
Calibration Content - Vehicles Built On Or Before 4/11/2010
DTC P0401 (exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) flow insufficient detected)
DTC P0402 (exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) flow excessive detected)
DTC P009A (intake air temperature/ambient air temperature correlation) if driven at highway speeds with a snow plow attached
Harsh/inconsistent transmission shifting during transmission fluid warm up
Improved shift feel for tip-in events at low speed or when coming to a stop
Calibration Content - Vehicles Built On Or Before 11/5/2010
Previously released calibration content included in IDS software release 69.07 and higher contained improvement actions and enhancements to address the following: Calibration Content Vehicles Built On Or Before 11/5/2010
Delayed manual upshifts from 1st to 2nd gear when in Select Shift mode while going down a grade
Harsh/delayed 1-2 upshift and downshift
Harsh 2-3 upshift on first drive away of day after vehicle soak < Expect mine is on Downshift only
DEF warning messages won't reset after refilling DEF tank with Key On Engine Running
Modified vehicles for rail applications, that will not re-engage PTO operation or speedometer inoperative after riding on the tracks with the front wheels off the ground
VSOUT signal inoperable from customer access circuits under dash
DTC P2463 or P246C (DPF restriction) and DTC P2459 (DPF regeneration frequency) - adds increased ability to perform manual regeneration at higher load values when performing system diagnostics
Calibration Content - Vehicles Built On Or Before 08/23/2010
False DTC P132B (turbocharger/supercharger boost control A performance)
False DTC P0299 (turbocharger/supercharger A under-boost condition)
False DTC P050E (cold start engine exhaust temperature too low)
False DTC P06EA (NOX sensor processor performance (bank 1, sensor 1)
DTC P249C (SCR time to closed loop) - improved diagnostics and reporting
DTC P249F (excessive time to enter closed loop DPF regeneration control) - improved diagnostics and reporting
DTC(s) and freeze frame data being erased in the PCM when running KOEO, KOER, Datalogger, Active Commands or any other guided diagnostics with IDS
False P0731 (gear 1 incorrect ratio)
False P0732 (gear 2 incorrect ratio)
False P0733 (gear 3 incorrect ratio)
False P0734 (gear 4 incorrect ratio)
False P0735 (gear 5 incorrect ratio)
False P0729 (gear 6 incorrect ratio)
Low speed/load engine surge
Abrupt engine shutdown feel
HP fuel pump knocking noise at idle
Delayed DEF level indication after refill event
Harsh/bumpy transmission upshifts/downshifts
Delayed/harsh transmission engagement feel between R-D and D-R shifts
Transmission gear hunting during speed control operation when climbing grades or climbing hills, particularly while towing
Erratic transmission operation after descending grades while in 1st gear
Flashes/delays of current gear indication when using SelectShift mode
Added Brake Over Accelerator (BOA) feature - reduces engine power during off-idle driving when both the accelerator and brake pedals are applied simultaneously
Added SelectShift memory feature so the SelectShift gear display comes back on whenever going back into drive if the vehicle was turned off while SelectShift mode was still activated
Added engine protection feature from overspeed when descending long grades while towing and in manual gear ranges (forces transmission upshifts at 4000 RPM)
Increased torque - during hill assist operation - (see Owner Guide for additional system operation)
PTO operational enhancements - (applicable to vehicles equipped with optional PTO)
- Automatic secondary electronic idle controller (SEIC) turns on at engine start if the switch is in the on position
- Engine coolant temperature to operate PTO lowered to -7 °C (+20 °F)
- Improved RPM control with SEIC controllers
TSB 12-5-12
ISSUE:
Some 2011-2012 F-Super Duty vehicles equipped with a 6.7L engine and built on or before 5/15/2012 may exhibit diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P0181. Refer to the Calibration Content for additional calibration updates.
ACTION:
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
Please run Oasis using the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) to search for open Field Service Actions (FSA) and claim reprogramming updates against open FSA's when applicable. The latest level includes all previous enhancements released in prior calibration levels.
Reprogram the powertrain control module (PCM) and the transmission control module (TCM) to the latest calibration using IDS release 79.01 and higher. This new calibration is not included in the VCM 2012.5 DVD. Calibration files may also be obtained at Buy Motorcraft Parts Online | Official Motorcraft Auto Parts Site | FordParts.com.
NOTE: PLEASE ADVISE THE CUSTOMER THAT THIS VEHICLE IS EQUIPPED WITH AN ADAPTIVE TRANSMISSION SHIFT STRATEGY WHICH ALLOWS THE VEHICLE'S COMPUTER TO LEARN THE TRANSMISSION'S UNIQUE PARAMETERS AND IMPROVE SHIFT QUALITY. WHEN THE ADAPTIVE STRATEGY IS RESET, THE COMPUTER WILL BEGIN A RE-LEARNING PROCESS. THIS RE-LEARNING PROCESS MAY RESULT IN FIRMER THAN NORMAL UPSHIFTS AND DOWNSHIFTS FOR SEVERAL DAYS.
The Calibration Update Contains Improvement Actions And Enhancements To Address The Following:
False DTC P0181 (fuel temperature sensor A circuit range/performance)
Previously Released - Calibration Content
Included in IDS software release 74.03 and higher contained improvement actions and enhancements to address the following:
Calibration Content - Pick Up Truck (non-chassis cab) Vehicles Built On Or Before 3/7/2012
Runs rough/misfire during diesel particulate filter (DPF) regeneration
Calibration Content - Vehicles Built On Or Before 7/25/2011
False DTC P0884 (PCM/TCM power input signal intermittent)
Calibration Content - Vehicles Built On Or Before 5/31/2010
DTC P0134 O2 sensor circuit no activity detected (bank 1, sensor 1)
Calibration Content - Vehicles Built On Or Before 4/11/2010
DTC P0401 (exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) flow insufficient detected)
DTC P0402 (exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) flow excessive detected)
DTC P009A (intake air temperature/ambient air temperature correlation) if driven at highway speeds with a snow plow attached
Harsh/inconsistent transmission shifting during transmission fluid warm up
Improved shift feel for tip-in events at low speed or when coming to a stop
Calibration Content - Vehicles Built On Or Before 11/5/2010
Previously released calibration content included in IDS software release 69.07 and higher contained improvement actions and enhancements to address the following: Calibration Content Vehicles Built On Or Before 11/5/2010
Delayed manual upshifts from 1st to 2nd gear when in Select Shift mode while going down a grade
Harsh/delayed 1-2 upshift and downshift
Harsh 2-3 upshift on first drive away of day after vehicle soak < Expect mine is on Downshift only
DEF warning messages won't reset after refilling DEF tank with Key On Engine Running
Modified vehicles for rail applications, that will not re-engage PTO operation or speedometer inoperative after riding on the tracks with the front wheels off the ground
VSOUT signal inoperable from customer access circuits under dash
DTC P2463 or P246C (DPF restriction) and DTC P2459 (DPF regeneration frequency) - adds increased ability to perform manual regeneration at higher load values when performing system diagnostics
Calibration Content - Vehicles Built On Or Before 08/23/2010
False DTC P132B (turbocharger/supercharger boost control A performance)
False DTC P0299 (turbocharger/supercharger A under-boost condition)
False DTC P050E (cold start engine exhaust temperature too low)
False DTC P06EA (NOX sensor processor performance (bank 1, sensor 1)
DTC P249C (SCR time to closed loop) - improved diagnostics and reporting
DTC P249F (excessive time to enter closed loop DPF regeneration control) - improved diagnostics and reporting
DTC(s) and freeze frame data being erased in the PCM when running KOEO, KOER, Datalogger, Active Commands or any other guided diagnostics with IDS
False P0731 (gear 1 incorrect ratio)
False P0732 (gear 2 incorrect ratio)
False P0733 (gear 3 incorrect ratio)
False P0734 (gear 4 incorrect ratio)
False P0735 (gear 5 incorrect ratio)
False P0729 (gear 6 incorrect ratio)
Low speed/load engine surge
Abrupt engine shutdown feel
HP fuel pump knocking noise at idle
Delayed DEF level indication after refill event
Harsh/bumpy transmission upshifts/downshifts
Delayed/harsh transmission engagement feel between R-D and D-R shifts
Transmission gear hunting during speed control operation when climbing grades or climbing hills, particularly while towing
Erratic transmission operation after descending grades while in 1st gear
Flashes/delays of current gear indication when using SelectShift mode
Added Brake Over Accelerator (BOA) feature - reduces engine power during off-idle driving when both the accelerator and brake pedals are applied simultaneously
Added SelectShift memory feature so the SelectShift gear display comes back on whenever going back into drive if the vehicle was turned off while SelectShift mode was still activated
Added engine protection feature from overspeed when descending long grades while towing and in manual gear ranges (forces transmission upshifts at 4000 RPM)
Increased torque - during hill assist operation - (see Owner Guide for additional system operation)
PTO operational enhancements - (applicable to vehicles equipped with optional PTO)
- Automatic secondary electronic idle controller (SEIC) turns on at engine start if the switch is in the on position
- Engine coolant temperature to operate PTO lowered to -7 °C (+20 °F)
- Improved RPM control with SEIC controllers
#2
02-16-2015, 04:52 AM
For a 2015 truck I would think that any dealer service writer would happily agree to a re flash and possible solenoid replacement for that 2-3 part of the transmission.
Have you been given the run around?
My truck shifts too smooth for my taste, even in M. There is definitely an issue with yours so I'm inclined to think that you shouldn't have difficulty getting some attention.
Have you been given the run around?
My truck shifts too smooth for my taste, even in M. There is definitely an issue with yours so I'm inclined to think that you shouldn't have difficulty getting some attention.
#3
02-16-2015, 05:23 AM
Mine is a little stiff in the very cold morning. Yesterday am I set out with oil temp of 14F and trans temp of 0.
As I left and had to stop a few times to get through some stop lights it downshifted and was not harsh but not smooth.
It usually does this when really cold. I think it is the fluid in the trans.
As I left and had to stop a few times to get through some stop lights it downshifted and was not harsh but not smooth.
It usually does this when really cold. I think it is the fluid in the trans.
#4
02-16-2015, 02:43 PM
For a 2015 truck I would think that any dealer service writer would happily agree to a re flash and possible solenoid replacement for that 2-3 part of the transmission.
Have you been given the run around?
My truck shifts too smooth for my taste, even in M. There is definitely an issue with yours so I'm inclined to think that you shouldn't have difficulty getting some attention.
Have you been given the run around?
My truck shifts too smooth for my taste, even in M. There is definitely an issue with yours so I'm inclined to think that you shouldn't have difficulty getting some attention.
Do you know of a re-flash that would apply to 15' trucks? (build date is 10/14)
Would a solenoid cause what I am experiencing only intermittently when the truck is cold and soaked?
Mine is a little stiff in the very cold morning. Yesterday am I set out with oil temp of 14F and trans temp of 0.
As I left and had to stop a few times to get through some stop lights it downshifted and was not harsh but not smooth.
It usually does this when really cold. I think it is the fluid in the trans.
As I left and had to stop a few times to get through some stop lights it downshifted and was not harsh but not smooth.
It usually does this when really cold. I think it is the fluid in the trans.
I have a feeling it is what you say, the fluid in the trans is so cold it needs to warm up to work like it should. However, on a 65k truck, this should not be a issue.
Do you ever plug your truck in? I have not, wonder if I do a little heat will make its way down to the trans.
After a minute or two of driving and it warms up, all is good. Once the weather warms up a bit here, I am sure I will not experience it until next winter. So if I do bring it in, it will need to be soon.
#6
02-16-2015, 03:25 PM
I do not know about any tcm flashes for a 2015 model sd.
All I know is what I read here in the forums, which is enough to get some attention and make people think that I'm smart, but there are trained techs and various other smart folks that do read here so if there is anything important here somebody will help you.
Ford has replaced shift solenoids for inconsistent shifting, like you, I think ford expects the trans to shift properly in severe conditions, so it MIGHT be a defective part because it doesn't act right when cold. I'm no authority, just an opinion based on what I read and hear.
Many many cases like yours are subject to how professional the dealer service personnel are where you decide to take it. Dealer A will tell you "normal, just the way it is" and dealer B will say " no problem, bring it in and we will just go ahead and reflash the tcm and see if that helps, if not, we will go ahead and replace the solenoid under warranty".
I hope it goes well for you. My 2015 always has a trailer on it, it's 9° where I am now, I just ran to Walmart with the trailer and I never felt any shifting from the transmission. Of course I'm in 4wd and there's 8" of snow everywhere so I wasn't exactly feeling the road....
All I know is what I read here in the forums, which is enough to get some attention and make people think that I'm smart, but there are trained techs and various other smart folks that do read here so if there is anything important here somebody will help you.
Ford has replaced shift solenoids for inconsistent shifting, like you, I think ford expects the trans to shift properly in severe conditions, so it MIGHT be a defective part because it doesn't act right when cold. I'm no authority, just an opinion based on what I read and hear.
Many many cases like yours are subject to how professional the dealer service personnel are where you decide to take it. Dealer A will tell you "normal, just the way it is" and dealer B will say " no problem, bring it in and we will just go ahead and reflash the tcm and see if that helps, if not, we will go ahead and replace the solenoid under warranty".
I hope it goes well for you. My 2015 always has a trailer on it, it's 9° where I am now, I just ran to Walmart with the trailer and I never felt any shifting from the transmission. Of course I'm in 4wd and there's 8" of snow everywhere so I wasn't exactly feeling the road....
#7
02-16-2015, 04:35 PM
Elder User
That TSB does not apply to 2015 model year trucks.
Harder shifts may be experienced with a cold transmission and some shifts may be more susceptible than others. If you have a harsh 3-2 downshift and NOT a harsh 1-2 upshift and with no codes in the TCM memory and the software is up to date you may need to put up with it for a while to see if the concern progresses... dare I suggest you may simply be overly sensitive/concerned about this. Not trying to be a jerk so I apologize if I come across that way.
I will add: Several of the Torqshift-6 transmissions I have been into have had excessive clutch clearance in the intermediate clutch assembly with no discernable damage or wear. The Intermediate clutch will affect 2nd and 6th gears only and a fault with this clutch will be consistent and affect both upshifting and downshifting. All of these units were pre-2015 models. As a technician I would not entertain any repairs to this unit at all unless the shift quality was considerably bad and consistent. Of course, I cannot give you my best opinion without actually driving the truck for myself.
Harder shifts may be experienced with a cold transmission and some shifts may be more susceptible than others. If you have a harsh 3-2 downshift and NOT a harsh 1-2 upshift and with no codes in the TCM memory and the software is up to date you may need to put up with it for a while to see if the concern progresses... dare I suggest you may simply be overly sensitive/concerned about this. Not trying to be a jerk so I apologize if I come across that way.
I will add: Several of the Torqshift-6 transmissions I have been into have had excessive clutch clearance in the intermediate clutch assembly with no discernable damage or wear. The Intermediate clutch will affect 2nd and 6th gears only and a fault with this clutch will be consistent and affect both upshifting and downshifting. All of these units were pre-2015 models. As a technician I would not entertain any repairs to this unit at all unless the shift quality was considerably bad and consistent. Of course, I cannot give you my best opinion without actually driving the truck for myself.
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#13
02-17-2015, 01:25 PM
That TSB does not apply to 2015 model year trucks.
Harder shifts may be experienced with a cold transmission and some shifts may be more susceptible than others. If you have a harsh 3-2 downshift and NOT a harsh 1-2 upshift and with no codes in the TCM memory and the software is up to date you may need to put up with it for a while to see if the concern progresses... dare I suggest you may simply be overly sensitive/concerned about this. Not trying to be a jerk so I apologize if I come across that way.
I will add: Several of the Torqshift-6 transmissions I have been into have had excessive clutch clearance in the intermediate clutch assembly with no discernable damage or wear. The Intermediate clutch will affect 2nd and 6th gears only and a fault with this clutch will be consistent and affect both upshifting and downshifting. All of these units were pre-2015 models. As a technician I would not entertain any repairs to this unit at all unless the shift quality was considerably bad and consistent. Of course, I cannot give you my best opinion without actually driving the truck for myself.
Harder shifts may be experienced with a cold transmission and some shifts may be more susceptible than others. If you have a harsh 3-2 downshift and NOT a harsh 1-2 upshift and with no codes in the TCM memory and the software is up to date you may need to put up with it for a while to see if the concern progresses... dare I suggest you may simply be overly sensitive/concerned about this. Not trying to be a jerk so I apologize if I come across that way.
I will add: Several of the Torqshift-6 transmissions I have been into have had excessive clutch clearance in the intermediate clutch assembly with no discernable damage or wear. The Intermediate clutch will affect 2nd and 6th gears only and a fault with this clutch will be consistent and affect both upshifting and downshifting. All of these units were pre-2015 models. As a technician I would not entertain any repairs to this unit at all unless the shift quality was considerably bad and consistent. Of course, I cannot give you my best opinion without actually driving the truck for myself.
You are not coming across that way at all.
Right, I only listed the TSB because of what I found seemed similar to what I was feeling.
I am actually glad you posted, nice to have some insight from the inside. Your right, no codes and NO 1-2 harsh upshift, just the 3-2 downshift when very cold sometimes. I know I am OCD about a lot of stuff, especially my truck
. I feel and listen to every little thing comparing time to time when driving. My GF actually gets mad at me at times because I worry so much about stuff like this that bugs me. 
Even this "event" that I have noticed, varies and is more/less noticeable at times then others.Like I said after the first couple downshifts, all is good, smooth as can be.
If this event becomes more frequent, or happen when warm, then I will become concerned about it.
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06-04-2020, 09:50 AM
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