Hello everyone,

DISCLAIMER: I'm a new user and have searched extensively for an answer to this question. If it has already been answered, please direct me to the posting.

I have a 89 7.3 IDI with approx. 22k on a new engine and 112k on the truck itself. (The original owner ran regular antifreeze and had to replace the engine @ 90k due to cavitation.) My understanding is that all the "stuff" on the block (alternator, steering pump, injection pump, injectors, glow plugs....etc.) are original and were swapped from the dead motor to the new one 22k ago.

I have owned the truck for 4 years and don't drive it that much - 2000 per year max. In the last couple years, the IP has developed a leak. Common one, coming from the underside of the pump. Last fall I bought a turbo with then intention on installing it this spring. I took the truck on a 300 mile trip in April. The IP leaked so much fuel that I bought a fire extinguisher and kept it next to me on the seat for the 150 mile trip home, were talking way more than a drip here and there.

After returning from the trip, I called up a shop in Florida (don't know if I can name them or not) and bought a new parts (injection pump, injectors, return line kit, fuel/water separator.) when ordering the pump, they asked me if my truck had a turbo or not - considering I have a turbo to be installed, I told them I have a turbo model.

They sent me a DB2 that is set up for a turbo and matching injectors.

Last weekend I started looking at installing the turbo - its missing parts - ugh.

Now I need to take the truck on a 800 mile trip in two weeks, I wont have the turbo parts in time due to transit times and finances.

I don't have an EGT installed, but have one that could be put in the crossover pipe now and moved to the turbo later.

I know that the turbo DB2 has higher fuel pressure than the non-turbo. I also know that I can open the side access panel and turn the pressure down. If I do that, I will void the warrantee from the Florida company as the screw holding the access cover is tamper evident.


So here is my question, can I install the turbo DB2, injectors etc and run it without a turbo, without adjusting it, and most importantly WITHOUT damaging my engine.

Thanks in advance for your input,

Jon

 

So you're saying you have a TURBO IP with an N/A stock exhaust system? From what I've read your IP will be turned up about 2 flats too high, given the fact that they will have bench-tuned it for a turbo.

If you bought it from a reputable shop, I'd say crack that side panel open and turn down the fuel. Drive it like you stole it, and if you get black smoke turn it down some more.

BUT... since you said Florida, I'm guessing Pensacola Diesel?? If so, I would NOT crack the side panel, as I bought a re-manned IP from them only to return it, then return the next one, finally to get one that is still sub-par at low RPMs. I will never do business with them again and I'm not shy to say so.
Basically, IF you got a decent rebuild from them, the only way to know is to get that turbo working and see if you have a strong power band.

It's possible to drive like a grandma with the fuel turned up but you will still be over-fueling at most RPM's without even trying. And without an EGT you could melt pistons. I wouldn't do it.

If you have an EGT probe the place to put it is the driver's exhaust manifold, between the two cylinders closest to the driver. NOT the crossover pipe or anywhere after the turbo.
Then you can run 1100-1200 degrees at the most. Numbers will be far lower anywhere else but I don't have the "after turbo" equivalents, and most folks(including Gale Banks) say to take temps at your manifold.

I hope this helps,
-Joshua

 

welcome to FTE.
as josh said, you should be ok turning the pump down until you install the turbo.
but Pensicola reputation has gone in the toilet the past few years.

 

Im am NOT and advocate for turning up the pump and not running a pyro etc. However, if youre empty, just crusing downt the road. Id say you will be fine. Adjust your mirror so you can see your exhaust, if it starts hazing heavy / smoking back out of it. Its risky, so at your own discretion. But under normal cirumstances you should be fine. If you do have a pyro, install it. Drill and tap the manifold in the back.

 

Even with plenty of black smoke, it still takes upwards of 30 seconds to get into the dangerous temp range; Just keep an eye on the tailpipe when accelerating, and back it off when you get black smoke. Empty(or, at least, not hauling a trailer -- a ton and a half in the back won't make any real difference), at least, you'll be fine.

 

Hi Guys - WOW, thanks for the quick replies.

So now I'm in a quandary. Yes the pump and injectors are from Pensacola. I thought I checked them out good before I purchased, sorry to hear that their rep isn't as good as I thought.

I'm considering turning down the pump. For two reasons; 1) I'm going to be hauling, so avoiding the black smoke is kinda important. 2) It's not in the truck right now, so it should be real easy to dial it back.

I'll install the pyro either way, so how hard is it to deal with Pensacola if the pump is dead? Also, "two flats" is a little over 1/4 turn right?

Thanks,
Jon

 

One flat is a sixth of a turn....The fuel injected is directly controlled by your right foot...You can turn it down if you want but I think you will be disappointed if you do.. Take the time to install the pyro in the drivers side manifold. Its not hard to do...The Iron manifold is easy to drill and tap for the pyro...then drive it and just keep the temps below 1200 for short bursts and gear down and rev the engine up to keep the EGT's down on the hills.. No problem...

 

having the fuel up too high on an n/a sucks.the reman i got for chip truck was too high for n/a when i received it.what happens is the fuel pedal just feels "blank" towards the bottom or even "mushy" and it wasn't even blowing that much smoke when doing that either.no pyro but i bet it was scarey.i didn't run it long like that.
id load up and hit the hills (i always had to floor it pre-hill when she was n/a to keep momentum up) and have her kick down into 2nd.she'd puff out the pipe a bit,then feel like crap.i had to let up on the pedal until i felt the power come back and she'd gain speed lol.
was only a matter of 1 or 2 days of that and she got dialed in where it belonged and ran great.
use caution.remember you can't hurt the diesel by running 'er too lean.she'll just be down on power.that's safely restored by turning the fuel up in small increments.much safer to add a little as you go,than start with too much and turn it down to dial it in.
id spin her 2 flats down and go for a ride and start from there.

 

Hi Guys,
@ racer30 -- Now I feel like Homer -DUH! I never thought about just keeping it in a lower gear and keeping my foot out of it. That sounds like the most reasonable thing to do. It will cost me a few gallons, but that is better than toasting the engine.

Now on to the pyro install:
This is a pict of the driver side exhaust manifold looking down from the top.





Where to drill and tap? Position 1, 2 or 3 or somewhere else?

Also, I'm planning on drilling straight down. I could probably get access from underneath, but it would be much more difficult. Should I be overly concerned about shavings? Is drilling from the top even ok?

Thanks again for all the help.
Jon

 

Spot 3 is the one, no worries drilling or shavings, they will blow out the tailpipe. What pieces are you missing for the turbo.

Good luck with those fuel parts, if the return kit has clamps that are gold colored and cloth braid hose that does not say made in germany, dont use it. the hose is junk and the clamps, well dont clamp.

 

This is simply wrong. I can hit 1200 empty in about 8 seconds on a hill if i want to. On top of that, my pyro isnt in the exhaust as far as it should be and reads slow.

 

Ok, well CRAP! That is exactly what the hose and clamps look like.

Any chance that the injectors are any good?

Maybe I'll run the current injectors and have Oregon Fuel look at the "new" ones.

As far as missing parts go, I have a banks turbo and a hypermax intercooler. The banks is the non-waste gated non-sidewinder (The one with the big rectangular intake.) From what I can tell, the cross-pipe that connects the exhaust manifolds to the intake on the turbo is the wrong one. That also means that the downpipe is probably wrong too.

I say that they are the wrong ones because every installation picture I have seen shows the pipes connecting near the driver side and crossing from the driver side to the middle of the valley, then the downpipe goes down the passenger side and connects to the exhaust. The cross-pipe I have would send the input up the passenger side - if it was able to connect at all.

 

those pipes only go together one way, and are a pain to figure how they go together properly.
and you are correct. the passenger side pipe goes from the manifold to the y, and the y connects to the driver side manifold and the turbo pedestal up the driver center of the truck, then you slip the passenger side pipe into it and clamp it all down tight.
the down pipe bolts to the turbo outlet with 6 or 8 small bolts, then drops down on the passenger side.
also, i don't see how you could run an intercooler with that setup, the turbo outlet to intake hat is only 2 inches apart. there is no room to put an intercooler inlet/outlet.

 

They will charge to check them unless you are a regular customer. I have good return kits on hand all the time. If you buy a kit I will test your injectors.
Dont hold your breath on the outcome

 

Hi TJC,
Thanks for the info, I thought it looked kinda funny and like a lot of stuff to cram in such a small area.

As far as the IC with the turbo goes, I don't know. I can tell you that the banks air box looks unused so they must have been hooked together somehow. I'll start another thread about the turbo/IC setup when I get ready to do that. I think I want to put on a 2 inch body lift before doing the turbo anyway.

At any rate, I'm going to drill my exhaust manifold today and get set up to put in the IP.

Thanks,
Jon