Could use some 6.0 advice?
#1
03-02-2013, 07:41 PM
Could use some 6.0 advice?
Hey 6.0 drivers, i could use some of your been there fixed that knowledge. I'm not real familiar with these engines in particular as I have an 02 7.3 and diesels are rare around here anyway. anyway, a friend of mine has a 06 f 350 6.0. He was on his way home from a trip when it began to lose power and die. After sitting for a little while it would start, have full power and go for a few miles before the process restarted. I have no idea as far as maintenance, oil changes, filter changes or anything alone those lines. It has 199000 miles on it so I can only assume he's kept decent care of it and changed a few parts in its life. He had it towed to my place as he'd like me to fix it. sorry for the long winded story but I feel some background knowledge will help. Thank you in advance. After they dropped it off, I got it in it and hooked up my scanner. I feel and felt at the time the problem lied in the hpop system somewhere. I pulled the codes and it came up with a code for the egr, a code for glow plug number seven, and a code for low ice pressure. I apologise about not having exact code numbers but there on a list at my shop right now. After pulling codes and checking them out I opened up the icp pids and monitiored duty cycle, and icp desired and actual. It started after two tries, I didn't really monitor the numbers to closely with as it had sat for a day anyway. The numbers were all over and not lining up even close to eachother anyway. Duty cycle while cranking never went above 45 i believe. Changes fast. Within twenty feet it died. I let it sit a minute and it fired up again, quickly pulled inside and basically died as soon as I left off. I let it get up to room temp before further diagnosing. Afterwards, I cleared the codes, checked coolant, oil, filters, and took a fuel sample. Everything checked out there i felt. and started again with watching numbers. I started it and idle is rough, 250-400 rpm difference constantly, ranging erratically from 500-900 rpms on the scanner. Icp desired and actual are never the same, ranging from 550 to 750 psi and duty cycle was up and down as well. I found that taking direct control of icp duty cycle would comfort its idle some. 25, would kill it, 30, would start it and commanding 35 had the bet results. I shut it off, unplugged the icp sensor and 95 percent of its idle issues were cured and icp actual and desired were exact. It idled great and it seemed fine so I went on my first test drive with it. Had good power down low but once I was up to highway speeds I knew i was in trouble. Icp numbers were still good as far as matching eachother, when the truck began hitting lock up it began losing power. The further I went the less power it had. I pulled it into the near by rest stop and as soon as I let off the pedal and stopped asking for power it died. It would not start. Cranking icp duty cycle wouldn't go above 30 and icp numbers stayed exactly at 550. Being a mile down the road I sat there for five minutes and let it sit without touching anything. It started up, but wouldn't idle and would die unless I kept my foot on it a little bit. I got back on the road, never letting off the throttle. Again, decent power till higher speeds and lock up occurring. Losing power I pulled the shifter in third and it held around fifty five mph's at right around 3500 psi and 3500 rpms. It was fine till I pulled in my driveway and it immediately died. again, thank you for any and all help you can give. And I apologies about the long read. The ipr and icp wiring is going to be my next venture, followed by an ipr cleaning. Any and all 6.0 expertise is appreciated.
#2
03-02-2013, 08:06 PM
Hey 6.0 drivers, i could use some of your been there fixed that knowledge. I'm not real familiar with these engines in particular as I have an 02 7.3 and diesels are rare around here anyway. anyway, a friend of mine has
a 06 f 350 6.0.
He was on his way home from a trip when it began to lose power and die.
After sitting for a little while it would start, have full power and go for a few miles before the process restarted.
I have no idea as far as maintenance, oil changes, filter changes or anything alone those lines. It has 199000 miles on it so I can only assume he's kept decent care of it and changed a few parts in its life.
He had it towed to my place as he'd like me to fix it. sorry for the long winded story but I feel some background knowledge will help. Thank you in advance.
After they dropped it off, I got it in it and hooked up my scanner.
I feel and felt at the time the problem lied in the hpop system somewhere. I pulled the codes and it came up with a code for the egr, a code for glow plug number seven, and a code for low ice pressure.
I apologise about not having exact code numbers but there on a list at my shop right now. After pulling codes and checking them out I opened up the icp pids and monitiored duty cycle, and icp desired and actual.
It started after two tries, I didn't really monitor the numbers to closely with as it had sat for a day anyway.
The numbers were all over and not lining up even close to eachother anyway. Duty cycle while cranking never went above 45 i believe. Changes fast. Within twenty feet it died.
I let it sit a minute and it fired up again, quickly pulled inside and basically died as soon as I left off. I let it get up to room temp before further diagnosing.
Afterwards, I cleared the codes, checked coolant, oil, filters, and took a fuel sample. Everything checked out there i felt. and started again with watching numbers.
I started it and idle is rough, 250-400 rpm difference constantly, ranging erratically from 500-900 rpms on the scanner.
Icp desired and actual are never the same, ranging from 550 to 750 psi and duty cycle was up and down as well. I found that taking direct control of icp duty cycle would comfort its idle some.
25, would kill it, 30, would start it and commanding 35 had the bet results.
I shut it off, unplugged the icp sensor and 95 percent of its idle issues were cured and icp actual and desired were exact. It idled great and it seemed fine so I went on my first test drive with it.
Had good power down low but once I was up to highway speeds I knew i was in trouble. Icp numbers were still good as far as matching eachother, when the truck began hitting lock up it began losing power.
The further I went the less power it had. I pulled it into the near by rest stop and as soon as I let off the pedal and stopped asking for power it died. It would not start.
Cranking icp duty cycle wouldn't go above 30 and icp numbers stayed exactly at 550. Being a mile down the road I sat there for five minutes and let it sit without touching anything. It started up, but wouldn't idle and would die unless I kept my foot on it a little bit.
I got back on the road, never letting off the throttle. Again, decent power till higher speeds and lock up occurring. Losing power I pulled the shifter in third and it held around fifty five mph's at right around 3500 psi and 3500 rpms.
It was fine till I pulled in my driveway and it immediately died. again, thank you for any and all help you can give. And I apologies about the long read.
The ipr and icp wiring is going to be my next venture, followed by an ipr cleaning. Any and all 6.0 expertise is appreciated.
a 06 f 350 6.0.
He was on his way home from a trip when it began to lose power and die.
After sitting for a little while it would start, have full power and go for a few miles before the process restarted.
I have no idea as far as maintenance, oil changes, filter changes or anything alone those lines. It has 199000 miles on it so I can only assume he's kept decent care of it and changed a few parts in its life.
He had it towed to my place as he'd like me to fix it. sorry for the long winded story but I feel some background knowledge will help. Thank you in advance.
After they dropped it off, I got it in it and hooked up my scanner.
I feel and felt at the time the problem lied in the hpop system somewhere. I pulled the codes and it came up with a code for the egr, a code for glow plug number seven, and a code for low ice pressure.
I apologise about not having exact code numbers but there on a list at my shop right now. After pulling codes and checking them out I opened up the icp pids and monitiored duty cycle, and icp desired and actual.
It started after two tries, I didn't really monitor the numbers to closely with as it had sat for a day anyway.
The numbers were all over and not lining up even close to eachother anyway. Duty cycle while cranking never went above 45 i believe. Changes fast. Within twenty feet it died.
I let it sit a minute and it fired up again, quickly pulled inside and basically died as soon as I left off. I let it get up to room temp before further diagnosing.
Afterwards, I cleared the codes, checked coolant, oil, filters, and took a fuel sample. Everything checked out there i felt. and started again with watching numbers.
I started it and idle is rough, 250-400 rpm difference constantly, ranging erratically from 500-900 rpms on the scanner.
Icp desired and actual are never the same, ranging from 550 to 750 psi and duty cycle was up and down as well. I found that taking direct control of icp duty cycle would comfort its idle some.
25, would kill it, 30, would start it and commanding 35 had the bet results.
I shut it off, unplugged the icp sensor and 95 percent of its idle issues were cured and icp actual and desired were exact. It idled great and it seemed fine so I went on my first test drive with it.
Had good power down low but once I was up to highway speeds I knew i was in trouble. Icp numbers were still good as far as matching eachother, when the truck began hitting lock up it began losing power.
The further I went the less power it had. I pulled it into the near by rest stop and as soon as I let off the pedal and stopped asking for power it died. It would not start.
Cranking icp duty cycle wouldn't go above 30 and icp numbers stayed exactly at 550. Being a mile down the road I sat there for five minutes and let it sit without touching anything. It started up, but wouldn't idle and would die unless I kept my foot on it a little bit.
I got back on the road, never letting off the throttle. Again, decent power till higher speeds and lock up occurring. Losing power I pulled the shifter in third and it held around fifty five mph's at right around 3500 psi and 3500 rpms.
It was fine till I pulled in my driveway and it immediately died. again, thank you for any and all help you can give. And I apologies about the long read.
The ipr and icp wiring is going to be my next venture, followed by an ipr cleaning. Any and all 6.0 expertise is appreciated.
Can't help, but paragraphs are our friends.
#3
03-02-2013, 08:09 PM
#4
03-02-2013, 08:13 PM
FTE Chapter Leader
#5
03-02-2013, 08:53 PM
#6
03-02-2013, 09:05 PM
thank you indeed for the paragraphing. Lol. Typing on this iPad I did not think about that.
I'm definitely going to change out the icp sensor. It being plugged in causes a drastic difference in it. as far as servicing those mentioned, stc fitting, stand pipes and dummy plugs, is there a write up for servicing those and maybe some part numbers? I'm very interested in learning this thing in and out.
I'm definitely going to change out the icp sensor. It being plugged in causes a drastic difference in it. as far as servicing those mentioned, stc fitting, stand pipes and dummy plugs, is there a write up for servicing those and maybe some part numbers? I'm very interested in learning this thing in and out.
#7
03-02-2013, 09:11 PM
STC fitting upgraded part: 4C3Z-9B246-F
Kit for dummy plugs and stand pipes (late 04-07): 6E7Z-9A332-B
If a new ICP sensor straightens things out, then post up the readings for ICP, ICPdesired, IPR duty cycle and it may show that you have no issues with leaks in the high-pressure oil system. Usually you would still see issues with hot re-starts if the leaks exist.
Kit for dummy plugs and stand pipes (late 04-07): 6E7Z-9A332-B
If a new ICP sensor straightens things out, then post up the readings for ICP, ICPdesired, IPR duty cycle and it may show that you have no issues with leaks in the high-pressure oil system. Usually you would still see issues with hot re-starts if the leaks exist.
Trending Topics
#8
03-02-2013, 09:19 PM
When the engine dies after starting and getting nasty again, it will almost start, the starter cranks the engine fast enough and the pump building 550 psi it sounds like its just shy of the right amount of pressure to fully bring the engine to life. What oil pressure number is required to bring it to life?
letting it sit five minutes always results in a starting engine. Its extremely similar to my ipr issue on my 7.3. Start it cold in the morning, drive it down the road on full power till it hit operating temperature and it would die rolling down the road instantly and without warning and was at the same exact spot each time and wouldnt start till it cooled again. It ended up being the electrical end of my ipr. Must be the coil inside would fail at op temp for some reason.
letting it sit five minutes always results in a starting engine. Its extremely similar to my ipr issue on my 7.3. Start it cold in the morning, drive it down the road on full power till it hit operating temperature and it would die rolling down the road instantly and without warning and was at the same exact spot each time and wouldnt start till it cooled again. It ended up being the electrical end of my ipr. Must be the coil inside would fail at op temp for some reason.
#9
03-02-2013, 09:45 PM
#10
03-02-2013, 10:17 PM
I agree with Mark. Since you obviously have access to a scan tool that can not only pull codes but monitor live data as well as take active commands, I would start by reading your ICP VOLTS at key-on/engine-off. The book spec is between 0.15 to 0.35 volts, but in my past experience with installing a new ICP sensor the reading would be 0.24 volts. Any reading that is too high of too low will definitely cause issues. I would even go as far as wiggle testing the connector on the ICP sensor while watching the ICP VOLTS reading to see if it fluctuates.
As far as your symptoms go, once you have verified a good ICP sensor functioning, change the engine oil and oil filter using only the OEM Ford/Motorcraft oil filter WITH THE OEM OIL FILTER CAP if it has that garbage aftermarket oil filter with one-piece cap. I've seen it many times. Trucks that have arrived on the hook as a no-start caused by a failed IPR valve which was in turn caused by using aftermarket oil filters. A failed or failing IPR valve can, and most definitely will cause the exact symptoms you describe.
As far as your symptoms go, once you have verified a good ICP sensor functioning, change the engine oil and oil filter using only the OEM Ford/Motorcraft oil filter WITH THE OEM OIL FILTER CAP if it has that garbage aftermarket oil filter with one-piece cap. I've seen it many times. Trucks that have arrived on the hook as a no-start caused by a failed IPR valve which was in turn caused by using aftermarket oil filters. A failed or failing IPR valve can, and most definitely will cause the exact symptoms you describe.
#11
03-02-2013, 10:21 PM
FTE Chapter Leader
#12
03-02-2013, 10:22 PM
Furthermore, on a 2006 6.0L the your normal ICP volts, ICP psi actual, ICP desired and IPR duty cycle readings should be, 0.80 volts, 580 psi, 580 psi and 22 to 24% respectively in PARK or NEUTRAL with engine oil temperature at around 185 to 190*F. Unlike a 7.3L, 22 to 24% is your normal IPR duty cycle reading at operating temperature whereas on a 7.3L it's 9 to 11%. I've seen the spool nut on the back of the IPR valves back off and fall into the "valley" of the engine block too on some 7.3s from what I remember, sorry to stray off topic.
#13
03-03-2013, 02:15 PM
Thank you very much for your wealth of knowledge and some good solid numbers, I really appreciate your guys help on this and helping me better understand this engine. the first thing I'll do on it Monday morning will be checking ipr and icp harnesses and connectors and watch for fluctuations in the readings. I'll do that before i invest money in it.
From there, if that leads to no results, i'll change the icp sensor as it being plugged unplugged results in positive results and the icp desired and actual are exact as opposed to the readings not matching and fluctuating.
If that doesn't take care of the issues, at least i'll know I can trust my numbers. With my good numbers, I'll do a good solid oil change, as I also believe this engine has seen a lot of aftermarket oil filter changes. Can I ask whats up with these aftermarket filters? Bad oil flow? Bad filtration? One piece design is no good?
As far as taking the readings at operating temperature, operating temperature seems to be where it really doesn't idle, unless you have your foot on the pedal at least a little bit. Tomorrow will reveal some things, I'm also going to get the upgraded Stc fitting and kit for the stand pipes and dummy plugs and do this right for the guy because if your going to do it you might as well do it the right way.
Again, thank you guys for your help. Glad to see the 6.0 boys are just as friendly as the 7.3 boys.
From there, if that leads to no results, i'll change the icp sensor as it being plugged unplugged results in positive results and the icp desired and actual are exact as opposed to the readings not matching and fluctuating.
If that doesn't take care of the issues, at least i'll know I can trust my numbers. With my good numbers, I'll do a good solid oil change, as I also believe this engine has seen a lot of aftermarket oil filter changes. Can I ask whats up with these aftermarket filters? Bad oil flow? Bad filtration? One piece design is no good?
As far as taking the readings at operating temperature, operating temperature seems to be where it really doesn't idle, unless you have your foot on the pedal at least a little bit. Tomorrow will reveal some things, I'm also going to get the upgraded Stc fitting and kit for the stand pipes and dummy plugs and do this right for the guy because if your going to do it you might as well do it the right way.
Again, thank you guys for your help. Glad to see the 6.0 boys are just as friendly as the 7.3 boys.
#14
03-03-2013, 03:48 PM
And not to get off topic either, but rather no matter what, and no matter where or the condition, the electrical end of my ipr would fail as soon as the engine hit operating temp. Till it cooled down, and then I could go a few more miles. To cheat and get home when it happened a second time I quickly disconnected it and put it in a snow bank. ten minutes as opposed to a half hour in a cold truck sounded better to me lol.
When I first bought the truck years ago, i did my first maintenance interval and it didn't take me long to realize that the spool nut had fallen in the valley. They thread on there kind of weird but once you get it centered and threaded on nicely it's there for life.
When I first bought the truck years ago, i did my first maintenance interval and it didn't take me long to realize that the spool nut had fallen in the valley. They thread on there kind of weird but once you get it centered and threaded on nicely it's there for life.
#15
03-03-2013, 04:58 PM
FTE Chapter Leader