HPOP Resevoir Empties Within a Couple Hours
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HPOP Resevoir Empties Within a Couple Hours
Shut a T444E down for a couple hours and after restarting it soon died and would not start. Found the HPOP resevoir to be empty, filled it up through the pipe plug hole and it starts and runs and shows oil pressure. What are the leading causes for the resevoir not refilling/staying full?
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From: Texas
Just to clear things up, there's a difference in not staying full (while running) and draining down (while parked). We're dealing with draining down while parked?
Any other issues you can think of? IPR or check ball issues come to mind first if it's draining down.
Any other issues you can think of? IPR or check ball issues come to mind first if it's draining down.
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The more I think about it, beings it started and then died, it would seem the resevoir wasn't refilling. I will check resevoir oil level before I try to start it tomorrow.
Are there any common oil pump pickup issues with these engines that might cause them to suck air or lose prime?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Parker, CO
A quick test. Next time it's hard to start, have some oil on hand and slightly "overfill" the crankcase. Won't take much of an overfill, just get it a little above the crosshatches on the dipstick. If the truck starts to refill the oil reservoir on it's own and eventually start, then it's a cracked pickup tube. If it still doesn't start, it's a bad LPOP.
Don't forget to drain down the oil pan a little after that test. No need to run around in an overfilled crankcase.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Texas
Umm, scuse me 
, (standing on the side lines) any pics or reading anywhere of what you guys are refering to? pick up tube, Lpop I'm not familiar w these.
, (standing on the side lines) any pics or reading anywhere of what you guys are refering to? pick up tube, Lpop I'm not familiar w these.
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From: duncan oklahoma
the lpop is behind the balancer.usually the hpop consumes the oil in the resivoir before the lpop can refill the resivoir.causing the truck to run for a few seconds then die.
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Post Fiend
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From: Parker, CO
It's not extremely common for the pickup tube to crack, but it can happen from time to time. If the crack is above the oil line in the pan, then more air rather than oil is sucked up into the tube. What happens is the engine starves for oil, the LPOP can't feed the HPOP fast enough, and so the injectors don't have oil to pressurize - thus the engine doesn't run. If the LPOP is bad and can't supply oil to the HPOP, same result.
That's the one good thing about the injection system in our trucks. If there is no oil, it won't run. Kind of a self-protection safety net.
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This engine is in an International school bus, dealer tech advisor wants me to check the orings on the Injection pressure regulator first and then the oil pump.
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Finally got back to working on this rig and after a long and winding road that had me first replacing a cracked front cover the final solution was replacing the worn low pressure lube oil pump gerotors. They really did not look bad until compared with new ones.
Anyhow, I will have to tell you that the overfilling the oil trick could indicate a cracked pickup tube but in our case it provided enough of a crutch for the worn oil pump to refill the HPOP resevoir fast enough to prevent engine stalling. With the worn pump, our hot oil pressure was 10 at idle and 30 at 2600 rpm, after installing Internationals oil pump repair kit, the hot pressure is up to 20 psi at idle and 40 at 2600 rpm and I can now have the crankcase oil level back below the full mark on the stick and it keeps up with the HPOP.
Anyhow, I will have to tell you that the overfilling the oil trick could indicate a cracked pickup tube but in our case it provided enough of a crutch for the worn oil pump to refill the HPOP resevoir fast enough to prevent engine stalling. With the worn pump, our hot oil pressure was 10 at idle and 30 at 2600 rpm, after installing Internationals oil pump repair kit, the hot pressure is up to 20 psi at idle and 40 at 2600 rpm and I can now have the crankcase oil level back below the full mark on the stick and it keeps up with the HPOP.
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Short answer, yes, sometimes immediately after starting.
Its an International school bus though and the oil pressure guage is nearly useless as an indicator until after the guages finish their self check full sweep which happens every time the key hits the on position. The oil/ water fault light and chime would occasionaly set though after starting engine and you would have to shut engine off and restart it to make that stop.