Well as some have already seen I picked up the fire truck for Joe in Miles IA this weekend just got home, and down loaded some pictures. here is one.


The rest can be found in a gallery I started. Joe I will email the them to you when I get a chance so you will have them on your computor.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...&albumid=22340

Ok for the GOOD. basic truck body is in decent shape not much rust that I can find, and no dents to be concerened with. The engine purrs like a kitten but needs a carb rebuilt. The tires are pretty decent except just starting to weather check.

The Bad, there is some rust back on the fire body the interior roof panel is falling down, and this thing has VIRTUALLY NO BRAKES.

The ugly. well that would be my opinion on this thing making it to Oregon.

Ok what it needs, there is no doubt it has to have a battery this one must have direct short in it internally you can jump it and it will start but it won't restart or take a charge.
Next the master cylinder is bad, so either needs rebuilt or a rebuilt one put on it. My personal opinion is if you have to replace that master cylinder, and this thing has been sitting for the last couple of years all the wheel cylinders need pulled down and gone through also (I do not have the equipment anymore to do this so it will have to be at a shop, my jacks will not even lift this truck.) it probaby should have wheel bearing seals installed also as well as all the brake lines. The other thing is this has a eaton center load rear axle, I am not sure on the weight capacity of that axle but I am pretty sure that the way this truck is setup it's most likely over it. . Oh and it also needs a muffler look in the gallery and you will see the muffler on it is blown apart and split open directly under the cab not a good Idea.After talking to 2 people that are old enough to remember when this truck was new, and infact one of them remembers this truck from DeWitt, both of them were of the same opinion and that was they wouldn't take bets on it making it more than 500 miles before the rear bearings go out. the fire aparatas on the back is very heavy, and I haven't weighed it but with the way it set my truck and trailer down, and the way it towed with my PSD I would put the weight around 15,000lbs and a good share of it is on the back (look at the gallery for the picture from the rear 5 stage cast iron pump, and wisconson V4 gas engine hanging 8ft behind the rear axle on an extension.)
Basically I will do what I can, and will make arrangements for someone to pick it up or get it to a shop to get the wheel cylinders done somehow. But I will not take responsibility for it making the trip, it's my personal opinion that until this thing has been totally redone it shouldn't be driving that far as I don't feel it is safe expecially over the mountains and definatly not on the interstate, max speed on this truck in flat ground is gonna be around 55mph. and with the engine in it and the weight of it, your gonna be doing 20mph over the passes max, and don't expect it to get over 3mpg doing it (about 1500-2000 worth of gas) it's already cost me $170 for diesel just to bring it this far. This is just my opinions of coarse, but I don't want to be one of hte people driving it, and I feel it is my duty to be honest and tell you what I think. This is also just from a cursory inspection haven't had time to really look it over very close.
So then I just need to know what to do, and need the parts or the cost of the parts to do what I can.

 

Wow, I'm gonna cry now. This kind of puts a little bit of a hamper on some plans. I don't want anyone to put life and limb at risk to move this thing. If you find that it is going to take too much to get it roadworthy, then I will be forced to find other means for transporting it. I was put under the impression that it was fairly sound mechanically, except for the brake master cylinder. This really kind of stinks. After talking with my father in law, I was planning on putting that tank and pump set up on a trailer for a mobile fire tank, or pressure washer. I don't know what to do other than try to get it fixed, and or see what there is in the way of other options. If I am forced to get a truck and trailer for it, are you able to hold onto it for me? It may take several weeks, but if that is what I am forced to do, then that's what I'll do. Like I said, I do not want anyone getting injured for this truck. I'd let it go over a cliff before I let someone get hurt by it. E-mail me, let's talk, or something. Help me figure something out, and we'll go from there. Thank you Rob for everything you've done so far.

 

Joe I sent you a rather long email, so check your mail. But I will sumerise for those following this issue.
first yes the major issue is the brake master cylinder, but when that is replaced the most likely original 53 yr old wheel cylinders will be next to go so they will have to be replaced or fixed.
Next issue is the eaton center load axle, it's my understanding that it isn't rated to handle the amount of weight that the fire aparatas that was installed weighs, this isn't usually an issue for short running around town etc but when used for a long run the bearings won't withstand it, and could go out which would possibly leave someone stranded in a bad place. It's not that it's bad just that the truck weighs too much.
The last thing I would be concerened with is the gearing this thing is geared very low probably has a top speed of 55 with the engine screaming (I haven't driven it obviously) so that is hours on end with the engine at max speed, and this trip would be adding 2000 miles on a truck that has gotten 6800 miles in 53 yrs it's not used ot it.
I am thinking that both of the above issues could be resolved fairly easily, by replacing that center load axle with a front load out of a dump truck that still has the dayton style wheels on it, heck those were still used up until the 80s so finding one shouldn't be a problem, but it is something I would do when doing a frame off resto, and the only people that would realize it wasn't original would be a concorse judge or someone that is really into these old trucks and got down on the ground to see but from the outside it would still look original enough to almost everyone, and that would give you some more gear choices too.
As far as the tank and pump, I thought the plan was to restore this to an original fire truck for taking around the country as a fund raising thing letting people ride in an authentic fire truck. wouldn't stripping off hte fire aparatas defeat the purpose.

 

Would removing the fire truck body (from cab back) be an option? It would seem to make towing a possibility, at least. When the truck is mechanically fixed, Joe could drive it out to pick up the body.

Interesting thoughts about the rear axle capacity. I make that water tank out to be around 4' dia. and 8' long, which means it would hold 750 gallons and add 6,300 lbs to its present weight. If it was run around with the tank full in the past, the rear axle may already be toast.

 

If you changed the rear end, what of the brakes? can you get a rear with hydraulic brakes?

btw - that is a sharp tow rig you have - wish I had your trailer!

 

From the looks of it the tank and pumps were added into the apparatus body after the fact. As Ross suggested, would it be possible to remove either the whole apparatus body or the tank and pump unit from the truck as a temporary measure?? You could pull that tank unit and lighten the load considerable and still maintain a stock fire truck appearance.

I had a 1942 American LaFrance fire truck that had a similar body, a tank had been fabricated to fit within the bedsides and from what I remember was just held in place with a half dozen bolts.

Bobby

 

The tank and pump were added by the City of Dewitt after they got it from the fire department. The city used it as a pressure washing truck, and had also equipped it for wildland use. I've got a 54 F-750 with the larger Eaton type rear end sitting here, and it's 2 speed. It does use Budd wheels, instead of the Daytons. It would still be stock to have that rearend instead, and it has a matching front axle. I just don't know how to get it back there, unless we were to relay it there. The other thing is the issue of a shop, and larger tools. This stinks.

 

I'm no firetruck buff, but it looks to me like that started out as a hose truck and would have had hose racked in the center. The firemen would have ridden standing on the rear platform and would have jumped off with the hose end at the nearest hydrant. The truck would then drive on to the fire spooling out hose as it went. Removing the tank and pump would allow for benches to be installed in the center to carry more passengers on your charity rides. I could see you having a couple guys in full gear riding on the back platform to monitor the guests and provide some atmosphere. If it were me I'd fix the brakes then take it for a ride before deciding to tear out the rear axle, fire trucks weren't all that slow.

 

The truck has a GVW of 19500. That means that the manufacturer recommends that the maximum safe load that this truck can move for an extended period of time is no more than 19500 lbs. The whole truck weighs less than that. If the weight has ever approached that, it was when the tanks were full. With less than 7000 miles on it, and not all of them were with that apparatus added, or full of water, I cannot realistically see that the rear end would be ruined. Is it feasable to think the bearings have been allowed to get hot, yes. I can get bearings, and I can get wheel cylinder kits. I can even have an axle assembly gone through, and ready to replace the current unit. The gearing in the current axle is low, and it will not get good mileage. The choices are basically, fix it and drive it as planned, or I will have to locate a lowboy equipped truck driver capable of and willing to pick it up and haul it. Personally, I think the truck could make it with minimal trouble after going through the brakes. The axle has had good fluid in it all of its life, and so has the transmission. For an example, we drove my dads 55 F-350, which has the same Timken model Split Housing Hypoid rear axle assemby, only smaller, 800 miles fully loaded with more than 10000 pounds of cargo weight in the bed, and 21 foot Silver Streak trailer fully packed. It made the trip averaging 11 MPG, and had absolutely no axle or brake problems. I, of course, do not want anyone getting hurt, but these trucks are a lot more reliable than most people think. The same axle assemblies, and tranmissions were used for more than 10 years by millions of people, and in many different brands. Some of the inner parts are still used in some of the newer truck parts. I'll start looking for a semi to pick it up asap.

 

Like I said before, I am more concerned with the Ford part of the truck, than the fire truck part of the truck. Of the fire equipment, I am more concerned about the added apparatus, versus the rusted out original. If it came down to it, I would cut the fire body off of it, and keep the lights, and the added pump and tank. I'm sure I could scrounge up a replacement fire body around here that was in better shape anyhow.

 

Joe, Maybe make a list of things Monsterbaby can chop off of it. That will cut down on a lot of excess weight and make it easier to stop and be more reliable. I wouldnt be too concerned about speed or gas milage. It would probably be better to relay the truck home on slower highways vrs the interstate. It might take a while to get it home but I think that would work out better for the truck since it wont be pushed to do interstate speeds. As for the brakes have Monsterbaby swap out the master cylinder and see how it does. Perhaps he can get to to travel under its own power (and stop) until it gets to the next FTE who has the capabilities to do more repairs.

 

Good idea. After he takes a better look, I think we may be able to plan a little better.

 

What about relay hauling it? It kind of kills the original thought, but it may be doable.

 

Ok first 2 things that are none negotiable the I need right now is the master cylinder, and a new battery. Battery I can get locally of coarse like I said the cost will be $62.95+ 6% sales tax in Iowa but this battery that is in it won't hold any charge. And the master cylinder of coarse is obvious. Now the wheel cylinders are another issue like I said, and one thing about doing them is you will also be able to check the bearings, and install new axle seals at the same time as well as check the brake linings too so it would give a good inspection. There are several shops in the area that can work on it, this is farming community after all, so they are used to old farm trucks, and the rates wouldn't be as bad as in the bigger cities or out on the road but that is up to you.
The carb can probably make it if we run some carb cleaner in the gas for atleast the first couple of tanks as I don't see it leaking, it just has a slight stumble like it's maybe got some gunk in it. ( I can tell more once I can get it started)
The pump, engine, and hose real could come off but they would have to be put into someone elses pickup, and I would hate to be the one to have to try and transfer those by hand, and shipping them seperate would end up costing a bunch, probably in the 750-1000 range min. The tank itself might or might not be an issue, one thing I can say is Randy said that is what is leaking so not sure if it's worth hauling out there (I don't know where or how bad, and not really wanting to put water into it to find out but could if need be, just a thought on that one though since you talked about taking it out anyway)
As far as the the actual fire body, I don't think you want to lose this one, it's pretty solid, and only has some surface rust that I can see, remember this thing is actually made out of steel 1/8" steel to be exact so you have a lot to work withj.

 

Joe, look at how much it pulled down MB's 8 wheeled trailer, and how much fuel he used on the short trip. Only a farmer or a contractor who hauls around heavy equipment would have that tough a tow rig.

In addition, at the end of each relay the truck would have to be unloaded, and re-loaded onto another trailer, and boomed down. Not a job I would trust to just anyone - you would need to find people with knowledge of heavy tows.

Sorry, that is just not a practical idea.