I've been doing some research and I see that the consensus around the forums is that you don't do a chemical flush on a system that isn't experiencing high ECT-EOT deltas. (Readings of 15 degree difference)

Then I found this...

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdf...LI33024-GB.pdf

And it states:

Restore is an alkaline-based chelating cleaner particularly effective in cleaning silicate gel.
It is also effective in removing oil contamination and solder bloom.

Restore Plus is an acid-based chelating cleaner designed to remove heavy rust and scale deposits.
It is better at removal of oil and fuel fouling than alkaline cleaners.

Also, this Chart tells you how effective each chemical is:



So my question is:

If these Oil coolers are known to be clogged with Silicate that Gels from the GO5 coolant, then why would you not try to use Restore to remove all 'gel' before switching to the ELC Cat1 EC-1 Coolant? Restore should be used during flushing for 2 hours of normal operating temps, and no more than 3 hours.


One of the techs at Cummins told me that the Restore was better than it's weight in Gold for removing Silica Gel.

..

 

I wouldn't use any chemicals (and I didn't) with good temp readings.

If I had a bad cooler and knew I would be changing it, then yes, do a chemical flush.

I think it's bad juju to stir up a lot of crap with a good cooler.

Josh

 

I'm thinking about being the Guinea Pig for this.

My deltas are approaching 15-18 at various times while driving. ECT is 175-180 and EOT is 185-198 when I'm cruising at 60-65 mph. When I come to a stop, they even out, less than 4 degrees difference and my thermostat closes I guess because my ECT climbs back to 190 or so and EOT is 190-195. If I'm putting around town they look closer because my ECT climbs up, but at highway speeds my ECT drops. We've had cooler temps (ambient is 72 degrees today), but not sure why water temps are so low.

My thoughts are, if I can catch this in time, I can get the silica gel before it starts collecting other crap and I'm forced to R&R the oil cooler.

My plan is to use Ford TSB 08-23-01 - minus the simple green - and switch it up a little:

Use Restore for 2 hours after a hot water and backflush of the system, then lots of distilled water and driving and block draining. Steps to come. I don't plan on using the Restore Plus (VC9)

 

ECT sounds fishy. Have you tried a new thermostat?

 

........and those really aren't valid delta's because you're not at proper operating temperature.

 

Nope, going to do it when I perform this Restore flush. The thing is, I get it up to 190 to 195 when I'm not out on the highway.

True, I said this on another thread and some said that I was wrong. The issue is, you have to measure it after WOT and cruising at 55-65 on flat highway with no loads from what I have been reading. I can't get a clear understanding of what everyone uses to measure it. But if this is true, I can't get proper operating temps when I'm at 55-65 on a flat highway. My ECT drops too low.

 

Defiantly need a t-stat. Drain a gallon, swap it out and recheck your temps.

Josh

 

I agree.
I believe the TSB says "carefully" achieve WOT for a certain amount of time and then see what your temps are. I can't seem to carefully achieve WOT for more then 4 seconds without breaking a land speed record. Like others, I use the 65mph for 15 minutes after normal operating temp.

 

It was WOT to 49 mph

Josh

 

Good to know. If I go WOT up to 49 my deltas are around 3 and the 65 mph at 15 min gets the deltas to 9. Gotta wonder which way is really best.

 

I personally feel the steady 65 is the most reliable and repeatable test.

The newest Ford test is even more bizarre.


Josh

 

If you're talking about what I said in the repeat oil cooler failure thread, I didn't say that you're wrong. You said that it "must" be in bold cap letters, but that means you're limiting your focus to the arbitrary numbers in the test and not paying attention the whole problem. If you're ballparking 190* then you can look at the temps and try to figure out if coolant flow is getting restricted, even if you're at 186*-188*. That's because of how the sending unit and t-start are built, they aren't precision parts

In your situation, assuming you've checked the sending units (cold soak or swap) then what you're seeing is a failed t-stat, 175* is too low.

This whole notion of 190* with a 15* split isn't gospel truth, you're just looking at raw data that's indicating an impending problem, and using an arbitrary number to decide when to replace it. It really doesn't matter which specific test you use or if you do it exactly right because you aren't getting a yes or no answer out of it, you're getting a shade of grey that's leaning towards arbitrary pass or fail reference points. Or depending how bad the numbers are (EOT at 245* empty is typically indicative of a problem), the test doesn't matter because you can tell that it's screwed up.

We're talking preventative maintenance here, so you have to be a little intuitive and not get locked into a black and white answer.

 

Thanks, I'll change the Thermostat and then recheck.

 

I think you'll get many different opinions on the chemical flush part of your question so I'll throw mine in for your consideration. Best answer is - it depends. Also, be prepared to do a thorough flush to get all the chemicals out after you've followed the directions on the bottle. In my opinion there is no need to use distilled water for the entire flush. The amount required would make it impractical. Switch to distilled for the last couple of cycles to chase the tap water out.

Conditions to use a chemical flush:
1. Your EOT/ECT temp spread is more than 15*. If you want to give the chemicals a shot before changing the coolers, go ahead. Be aware successful attempts that last awhile have been rare.
2. Temp spread is more than 15* and your changing your oil cooler. Some still ask and the answer is chemical flush before doing the cooler swap.
3.You have oil in the coolant from a failed oil cooler. In this case you will want to start with some simple green or other degreaser in an attempt to get the bulk of the oil out and use the restore products after the oil cooler change. Unfortunately that's a bad spot to be in because if you run the truck to flush it with oil leaking into the coolant you will be chasing your tail. You can try the degreaser flush without running it before the work but the chemicals will have to be done after the work.
4. You are pulling coolant filters with a lot of sand, rust, or goo in them. If you know maintenance hasn't been done on the system and it's in poor shape, allowing the loose (and nearly loose) debris to stay in the system and freshening up the coolant is postponing the enevitable. You ARE running the risk of clogging the oil cooler and some would disagree but a incomplete cleaning only buys you some time.
5. You are changing coolant TYPES. Not just say from Ford Gold to GO5 which are similar HOAT's or from CAT to another brand of silicate free ELC but switching between the two types. Odd as it sounds, one of the mechanisms coolant uses to prevent corrosion is to promote a protective layer on the surface of the coolant passages. The layer is made up of chemicals from the coolant and ....corrosion. Water can leave much of this layer intact and your new type of coolant will not work as the manufacture intended because residue from the previous product is still coating the metal.

Conditions to not use a chemical flush:
1. Your changing the coolant based on miles or the calendar and going back with the same type of coolant. Your doing it early or at least on time and the old coolant is in good shape.
2. Your doing some other work on the truck that requires draining the coolant and you prefer to freshen it up with new coolant of the same type.
3. Hmm.....I guess that's it.

 

I'm going off of the TSB. It says MUST. That's why I ask so many questions.

NOTE
FOR ACCURATE TEST RESULTS, ECT TEMPERATURE MUST BE GREATER
THAN 190° F (88 °C) WHEN MEASURING THE ECT AND EOT MAXIMUM
TEMPERATURE DIFFERENTIAL