***This is a theoretical question mind you so any and all thoughts are highly appreciated.***

Ok, so here it is. In 09-10 the f150 received the then new 6r80 6sp trans. However this was before the f150 was treated to the new line of engines, meaning that this wonderful 6sp with slapstick shifting was matted to our good old modular engines.

That being said in the right configuration it must hook up to the engine fine, but that is the only thing that I know for certain.

There are other very important questions like:

Would it hook up to the tcase?

Will it fit in the trucks body?

Is the computer capable of being tuned to accept the trans?

Speedo calibration?

Will custom drive shafts be necessary?

What torque converter to use?

I am sure there are more crucial questions to be answered before any plans are to be made, however if I knew what they were and could answer them I wouldn't be here asking. So please gentlemen (and possibly ladies) please bring up any other glaring issues or for that matter any not so glaring issues regarding this swap.

After driving a truck with the 6sp knowing there is the posibility that it could be in my 05 is going to haunt me until I figure out either how much time and money I need or if it is out of the realm of possibility for the average man. After ~160k supercharged miles the trans in my 05 is not so fresh. It is not going to go out tomarro. But I will be surprised to see it make another winter.

Thank you, best wishes, and MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Raider50

 

I'm subscribing.

The biggest issue I see possibly arising is whether or not the electronics from the newer transmission will talk the same language as the electronics from the older truck. If there was not any major changes to the electronics between the two generations of F150 though, it's definitely possible.

 

That is what I was thinking too.

The simplest solution if they cant talk to each other would be to put in a stand alone ecu for the trans essentially turning it into manual.

I would have to click up or down all the time. Not necessarily the worst thing, but if its an auto it would be preferable to let it do the thinking for me (most of the time).

But I haven't the slightest clue to wither they would jive or not. Lets hope some of the big brains on the site will be able to chime in.

 

There's a former Ford transmission engineer here on the board; I forget his name but maybe he will see the thread and give some info.

 

This is the guy that will be able to give some feedback: Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - View Profile: Mark Kovalsky "Mark Kovalsky"

 

No, it is not. It takes a lot more than tuning. There are not enough inputs or outputs in the PCM to be able to control the trans. Plus the chip doesn't have enough memory to be able to run the stock program that will control the six speed. All the hardware in the PCM would need to be changed.

No, they do not.

As for a stand alone TCM, where are you going to get one? I think you will need to design and build your own. I know that companies like Baumann and PCS make stand alones, but I don't think they make one capable of controlling this transmission. Controlling a 4R70W or E4OD/4R100 is a piece of cake. The newer transmissions are MUCH more complicated and harder to control.

 

MAJOR BUMMER!!! I am really grateful that there is someone with such a background on here, even better that you found this thread. But its to bad you had to be the bearer of bad news. That basically kills it before it begins.

It now seems like what ever psychical problems presented by the swap are going to be a piece of cake compared to the digital.

So with this news it raises another swap question, how impossible would it be to either swap in a 09-10 computer try to wire things so they work and move on from there?

But with that being said I wonder if i could run two computers. Keep my stock one to run the engine, and get a 09-10 computer from a striped out xl or something so it is not expecting all of the cabin electronics and have it more or less reprogrammed to allow me to manually change gears via a multi position switch of some sort.

The only thing i can think of that keeps me from being totally screwed is that my best man at my wedding is a computer programer by trade, he only does consumer products (video games, and other app type programs) but the basics are going to be the same. From what little knowledge I have I am assuming it you would need to isolate the trans in the new computer. There must be a way to over ride it so as long as everything was hooked up properly psychically it would function safely.

Given the newly given information, it would be in no way simple or easy. So that just pushed back the possible date of doing this to the distant future, around the same time I tear the entire front end off the truck and swap in a solid front axle with those weirdo manual locking hubs (after some extremely costly IWE problems after only having the truck 5 years I don't see that system lasting for the next 40 years, but i can guarantee that a D60 will. but that is for another time)

So Mr.Kovalsky, as the resident expert does this plan sound like it has a shot in hell or am I just asking for catastrophic failure?

Thanks for the input guys! I really appropriate it!

 

It's possible. Given enough time and money ANYTHING is possible. I'll bet you could get this swap done for no more than the cost of one or two brand new trucks.

Fooling the computer into running only the transmission is not going to be easy. The computer uses engine information to calculate engine torque, and sets pressures based on that torque. Without the engine being run by the trans computer I don't see a way to get the pressures set correctly. Without the right pressures the shifts are going to either flare (runaway engine speed during the shift) or tie up (the output shaft gets locked to the case, stopping the rear wheels RIGHT NOW, or breaking shafts.)

As for making the computer work to shift manually with a tap up, tap down feature you will need to add inputs to the computer so that you can install switches to make it happen. Then the software needs to be able to see these. I think you're better off, and would spend less money, to just throw out the stock computers and invent your own. That's why I think it will cost at least as much as one or two brand new trucks. I'm estimating low because I expect you'll work for free. When I was at Ford we budgeted 10 times this amount to produce a couple prototype controllers that ran a race 4R100 in off road racing.

 

So much for the good news. I allways wondered if that type of setup would work, and i guess for us 4 speed auto guys i imagine the 4r100 is a no go too?

 

I suppose at this rate it would be easier to swap in a manual 6sp, probably cheaper too. Looks like I have a answer, not the one I wanted obviously, but a answer none the less. Don't be surprised if you see a theoretical ZF6 swap thread next

 

The 4R100 is MUCH easier to swap. Depending on what engine you have there may be a production PCM that will work. If not, there are companies that make controllers that will control a 4R100. That transmission is simple to operate.

 

Be sure to rep Mark for his enlightening information.

 

another logical possibility is a 5r110? im thinking that its 5 speed and is super heavy duty and it has been used for a while too. Is this possible?


Thx

Ken

 

It's about as easy to install a 5R110 as it would be to install a 6R80. The additional difficulty of using the 5R110 is that it is BIG. I don't know if it would physically fit, but that's the easy part. The computer and wiring issues are just as big with this trans as the 6R80.

 

Justa thought, oh well. I guess if it comes to anything it will be a 4R100. How good is that trans compared to the 4R70 or 75 that is in these trucks.