So you are trying to tell me that your gear selector has a D and an OD position? Mine is simply PRND21. D means D. Are you telling me that what you are reading into the manuals instructions is that the D on the display really means OD and to magically make it a D you push the button? That is NOT what the manual says to do. It says select D, not select D then push the OD defeat switch. Even gchavez admits that the manual never states to tow with the OD off. It isn't in the Expy manual, it isn't in the F250 manual, it simply is NOT reccomended by the manufacturer anywhere in the literature you guys found that you should tow with the OD off.

Argue it all you want, it has now been posted more than once, and for neither application is it reccomended that you tow with the OD off. You can "think" it is better all you want. You can read into the manual whatever you want. Seems to me if it was reccomended to tow with the OD off, that would be CLEARLY stated in plain english. You guys are trying to interpret a document written to the lowest common denomonator. Just read it. Show me where it says "It is reccomended that when towing the OD should be turned off". You can't, because the simple fact is, IT DOESNT SAY THAT ANYWHERE.

Then I can back it up with real workd experience. The trailer behind my F350 was 8000lbs empty and 15000lbs+ loaded. I was at max GCVWR for the bulk of 250k miles in OD. Funny, the trans never blew up. Plowing was the hardest on it, low speed, little airflow, lots of pushing with the TC unlocked. On that truck the sensor was in the test port. I would run the rolling hills on OD, fully loaded and never crack 160 degrees, winter or summer.

It cracks me up that your argument is that OD is higher than D, so they meant to tow with the OD off. The only one spouting opinion is you. You want to interperet the manual to win your argument? When the average moron reads that, gets in the truck and selects a gear, what do you think they end up with? Exactly what the manufacturer intended, all four gears, beacuse there is no setting for three gears unless you push the OD defeat switch. If that is what they wanted you to do, that is what the manual would say. It doesn't though.

 

Wow, I've seen people desperate to try and win an argument when they're clearly wrong and refuse to admit it, but now you're going into borderline pathetic territory.

Are you really sitting there thinking that you're going to convince anyone that you don't realize the "D" has a circle around it to represent the "O" in OverDrive on the shift indicator. Then we're also supposed to believe that you never realized by pressing the button at the end of the shifter you disable the OD, making your 4-speed tranny into a 3-speed one?

Seeing as it's now been determined that the manufacturer says it should be in D (Drive) on steep hills, that only leaves us to determine what the manufacturer say D (Drive) is. Well seeing has how you want to try and grasp at any little straw you can, allow me to shutdown your argument once and for all by posting an attachment from the 98 manual in which the manufacturer explains what D (Drive) is.

 

I am the one grasping at straws? I am reading the manual in the towing section literally. NOWHERE does it say to disable the OD, NOWHERE.

You are reading into the manual to try and win your argument, not me. It is crystal clear, get in and select D. There is only one D on my selector. Why is it so hard for you to simply READ what the manual says. You WANT it to mean drive, the manual does not say DRIVE, it says D.

I realize that the D on my selector display means OD. The question seems to be, do YOU?

The FACT remains, NOWHERE does the owners manual state that OD should be disabled for towing. You seem to want to twist a literal printing around to suit your argument. Do you not understand that if Ford wanted you to tow with the OD off that the manual would clearly state "Turn the OD off"? Why do you have such a hard time understanding that they didn't say that because they didn't mean it. Instead you want to infer something that is not clearly in print. I wonder why that is? Bitterly clinging to an outdated idea are we?

Is is so incredibly obvious. If running in OD is the RISK you claim it is, if people are going to be left with large repair bills, or Ford with big expensive warranty claims, they would have clearly stated "Turn the OD off". Again, they did not. It is a huge stretch to say that Ford expects owners to translate the way you insist must be done to reach your conclusion. Talk about a pathetic attempt.

 

Well now, we agree on something.

I cannot believe you've gone to such lengths to try and convince yourself of this.

In the Driving section of the manual it tells you what "Drive" is:
Drive – Not shown on the display. Activate by pressing the Transmission
Control Switch (TCS) on the end of the gearshift lever with the gearshift
in the D position.

Then in the towing section it tells you to:
Use D (Drive) or a lower gear
when towing a trailer up or down steep hills.

Neither of those are good enough for you to see that the manufacturer is telling you to turn off the OD when towing up or down hills? You need it to be spelled out in plain clear English to you? I remember someone posting a couple of days back that owners manuals are written for "morons". I must say that I don't think any "moron" would have the trouble grasping the manufacturer's intent that you are pretending to be having.

 

Wow, you are sharp as a tack. I have only been trying to get that through your thick skull for what, half a dozen posts?

You are so desperate to prove that disengaging OD is of some help that you have to surf the owners manual and piece together this flimsy notion that Ford wants you to do that.

I firmly believe that they would have simply stated "Turn of the OD" if that was actually what they wanted you to do. There is a litany of reccomendations that are crystal clear and require none of the verbal contortions your argument does. Towing with the OD off simply is not one of them.

Here are a few gems stating the obvious...

Page 111 "To set the parking brake, press the parking brake pedal down until it stops."

Page 118 "When Four-wheel drive (4WD) is engaged, power is supplied to all four wheels..."

Page 141 regarding tire changing, "If the vehicle slips off the jack, you or somebody else could be injured"

Page 151 "Do not work on the vehicle with the engine running in an enclosed space..."

They go to the trouble of spelling out the most obvious things in the world yet somehow they will not spell out in plain english to turn off the od when towing. The simple explanation for this is that, it isn't necessary. Ford clearly doesn't think it is important enough to mention.

Once again, besides the obvious fact that they do not state "turn off the od to tow", I have towed countless thousands of miles towing in OD in a variety of trucks and I have never melted one down. You are making a mountain of a molehill. It is really quite entertaining to see you strain to connect the dots.

I have no need to convince myself of this. I have more real world experience with this than you ever could even dream of.

 

I think you mis-understood my post. To say that it is NOT recommended is very misleading. What I was trying to say is the manual doesn't actually say to disable O/D but is sure does imply it (strongly). I do agree that it's vague and subject to interpretation though. Page 214 of my Expedition manual and page 118 of my F250 manual reads:

"Drive-Not shown on the display. Activate by pressing the TCS (Transmission Control Switch) on the end of the gearshift lever......Drive provides more engine braking than Overdrive and is useful when:

• Driving with a heavy load
• towing a trailer up or down steep hills
• additional engine downhill braking is desired. If towing a trailer, refer to "Driving while you tow in the Trailer towing section".

If Ford is saying it's "useful" to have O/D disabled while towing under the 3 conditions listed above then it's reasonable to interpret that it's also "recommended". I understand that you have a different understanding but most of us would take it as a recommendation.

However, you are 100% correct. The manual does not say so in black and white so you win that argument. Good job. Nobody really wants to argue with you about what the manual says. Most of us just want to help out the OP and give advice as best as we can to help him and his family get home. Period.

With that in mind, I still agree with "alloro's" advice in his first post to be sure to turn off O/D when climbing the hills. That sort of advice is in the spirit of this forum and is clearly intended to help Seth who posted this question and wanted some opinions. Seth is a member of "the brotherhood" and I for one would hate to see him stranded on the side of the road with a ruined transmission because he attempted to use his Expy like he would normally use his Power Stroke. Even so, if he were to break down he can call on the RHN and a half dozen FTE members would drop what they are doing and help him and his family get back on the road (if possible) or get him a tow to safety. It's what we do, and what that forum is known for.

If the OP has left for home, I hope he has a good safe trip with no issues. If he hasn't left yet, I hope he takes our advice to disable O/D when climbing and descending steep grades to keep the transmission from hunting(thus keeping temps in line) and to utilize the engine braking effect on the downhill grades. Have a safe trip bud! I trust that you have enough good information here to make up your own mind. See you on the other side (7.3 forum)

 

Well there you go, you "believe", no wait, you "firmly believe" they should've spelled it out more clearly for you. For the rest of us, it's clear the manufacturer is saying to turn the OD off without having to nit pick the wording. I've shown you their exact wording, wording that is clear to anyone who's back isn't against the wall.

 

My back isn't against the wall anywhere but in your mind.

Neither of you guys really have any idea what you are talking about. There simply is not a manufacturer out there today that tells you that towing with the OD off is the reccomendation. The two of you have extrapolated more opinion from the manual than I have ever seen anyone attempt. If it was as important as imminent transmission failure, it would be clearly stated as such.

It is much more than "what the manual says". The simple fact is, there is no reason to tow with the OD off period. I went through this in depth with the dealership before I ever bought auto trans trucks. I went through it with sales and service at one of the largest commercial Ford dealers in the midwest. The advice from them was to run it in OD. The exact same was true of Dodge, who at the time didn't have the best rep for auto transmissions. I already mentioned my time spent with a transmission engineer and the Allison unit in my Chevy.

You are making a reccomendation based on fear. Fear of something you simply do not understand. Please alloro, tell me what real world experience you have with this? Does it hold a candle to mine? You want people to take your advice based on what you parsed together from the owners manual? Please tell me you are basing this on more than that because it is a rather weak and transparent argument.

I have been here to give Seth lots of advice since he has been a member. Good solid advice based on experience. In the spirit of the forum, there is no way he is going to damage his truck towing a Camry through the eastern mountains with the truck left in OD. To suggest this is what will happen is irresponsible. Niether of you have any basis for suggesting this, other than the contrived interpretation of the owners manual. Kudos to gchavez for the time and effort put into monitoring your set-up. My main issue with this piece of advice is that I have seen alloro repeatedly suggest that people should tow with the OD off. That is simply not true, I absolutely take issue with it. If the best you can do is what you have found in the manual, then I think it is very clear to anyone who has read this. There simply is no need to do as you suggest. I have given real world examples, based on real world experiences. I have read the manual, niether suggest to me that there is an issue for concern here.

Good luck clinging to your outdated and incorrect advice though

 

We're not talking about today now are we! We're talking about a 98 model that is 12-13 years old with a design older yet. So first off, you can't apply current updated standards to an older vehicle. Second, you've been repeatedly shown and have chosen to repeatedly ignore what is written word for word from the manufacturer to the owner. Third, your "real world" experience doesn't mean squat, all it means is you've disregarded the recommendation and have been lucky to date. Forth, are you serious about using dealership sales people as your reliable source? Fifth, I am not making any recommendation, through fear or otherwise, I am pointing out what the manufacturer is recommending.

I don't proclaim it to be good, bad, or indifferent. I do make the claim that turning the OD off on hills is what the manufacturer is saying to do. Nothing in your's or anybody's worldly experience can change that. They tell you to push the button and pushing the button turns off the OD, it's there in black and white. Now you can argue whether or not it makes any difference til the cows come home, but that does not change the fact that they recommend pushing the button and turning off the OD for steep hills.

 

Apparently later models attempt to clear up this confusion. I had a 2005 f-350 with a switch in the exact same spot, but they renamed it from "overdrive off" to "Tow/Haul mode." The instruction manual clearly stated to PRESS THAT BUTTON if you were towing a trailer or carrying a heavy load.

 

Completely different transmission, and T/H does not necessarily lock out OD.

 

You are just plain wrong. Nowhere does the manual instruct the driver to push the button. Your indirect path to get to that conclusion is contrary to the way everything else in the manual is written. I have clearly demonstrated that the manual does not say to turn it off in plain english. If that is what they meant, they would say it.

Your attempts to discount my investigation prior to purchasing a truck ae humorous. You include the salesperson but neglect to mention the service department. Same tactic with the manual, you have to pick and choose to try and put it together. It is obvious that the manual is not written so that the owner needs to decipher the code as you have had to do.

It is very simple, if it was a transmission reliability issue, the manual would clearly state to push the button. It doesn't because it is not a requirement. Fish for your proof however you like. The fact remains, you are wrong.

 

From Fords website under towing tips...

Driving with an automatic overdrive transmission
If your vehicle has an automatic overdrive transmission, towing may cause excessive shifting between overdrive and the next lower gear – especially in hilly areas. If this occurs, we recommend locking out the overdrive gear. This helps eliminate the shifting and can provide steadier performance (see your Owner Guide for more information). If you do not notice excessive shifting, use the overdrive gear to optimize fuel economy.

Oooops

 

Interesting comment. I am pretty sure I have a good idea about what I am talking about most times.

Right or wrong, my thoughts and comments are based on my experience, which is full of lessons learned and some of that comes the hard way. The transmission in our 2004 Expedition failed at 37k miles. The damage was severe enough for the dealership to recommend against rebuilding it and a brand new replacement transmission was installed. As luck would have it, it was covered under warranty. The technicians at the Ford dealership were very specific and recommended that we turn off the O/D on our new transmission when towing our boat to the lake and even went so far as to suggest that is what damaged the original transmission in the first place. I am no transmission expert, but when Ford tells me to turn the thing off...I listen. It's been 35,000 miles on the new trans and it seems solid. I just had the fluid changed 2 months ago and the dealership said everything looked good inside there still. Not sure how they can tell but I suppose they were being truthful.

My uncle is a senior master technician for Ford in Albuquerque with specific certification on automatic transmissions. He told me it is a good idea to turn off O/D when towing though the canyons to keep the transmission fluid from getting hot. He also did explain that turning off O/D on the 4R100 does absolutely nothing to the shift strategy nor does it have any special way of running more efficient or better than with it engaged. It simply helps keep the transmission from hunting for 4th gear when it shouldn't be used on such a climb. If you saw the road, you might understand better.

I believe he said the newer transmissions (Torqueshift?) had the Tow/Haul button and that does change the shifting strategy to help with towing but neither of my trucks's transmissions have that feature.

I also suffered a transmission failure in my F250 with the 4R100 unit as well. That wasn't really a surprise though because I knew I was pushing my luck asking the factory unit to tow such a heavy load. My uncle informed me that a factory spec transmission would probably not survive and recommended that I have a heavy duty unit built by one of the several reputable transmission shops in my area. He specified the parts and the shop built me a unit. To this day, that has to be the best $4000 that I've ever spent on any of my vehicles. My truck tows MUCH better now than it EVER did with the factory transmission. It's been way over 100k miles since the rebuild and the shifts are still solid and firm.


So, I know this. I have had two transmission failures. I do tow with O/D enabled most of the time. I only turn it off on my F250 on really big nasty climbs or when I am using my exhaust brake. With the Expedition, I leave O/D enabled on flat stretches of road but always turn it off on the climbs. So far, the new transmissions in both trucks are doing fine and have a clean bill of health.

I hope nobody else out there has to deal with a toasted trans. It sucks and it's expensive. I learn lessons quickly and will continue to use my own methods, which seem to be successful so far.

 

Yep, sorry about that. I did mention one other place that I was impressed with how you monitor your transmission.

Even though we have already determined that if the TC is locked, the fluid temp is going to remain low.

Good advice, of course it is a little different that alloros reccomendation that it be turned off unless the road is flat. If it is hunting, turn it off, that is the purpose of the button.

Increased line pressures and higher shift points along with a more aggressive TC lock up schedule.

Tighter torque convertors (lower stall speed) with stronger lock up clutches and stronger clutches on the gearsets along with a valve body allowing higher line pressures to make a big difference in a heavy towing rig. I bet it shifts much more firmly than stock, they build them pretty soft since fewer and fewer trucks these days do more than mall duty.

The 4R100 in my F350 was tortured pretty good, though probably didn't see the high ambient temps yours did. It was still going strong at 250k miles, all stock. I did have a trans temp gauge on it from new though, and it was serviced every 30k.

Sounds a little contrary to the advice you were giving previously, though I could be confusing it with alloros argument.

In this post I do not see that we are too far apart at all. I would guess that if you are towing a 7000lb boat with an Expy that it probably runs in third on its own quite a bit. Turning the OD off keeps it from hunting.

The problem I have is that there is an implication that somehow the OD section of the trans is not capable of towing. That may have been the case in the E4OD, or in Chryslers 47RE but I have substantil experience with the updated versions of those transmissions (4R100 and 48RE), both are very durable and capable of towing a maximum load all day everyday in OD. I am so lucky that I have close to half a million miles towing with those transmissions, and no failures.