First of all I know what torque is- twisting force.
If I want to tighten a bolt to 50 ft.lbs I can put a one foot wrench on it and hang a 50lb weight on it or I can get a 50' wrench and push down with 1 lb of force.

My question pertains to truck engine torque. For example, the new Coyote has 380 ft lbs and the BOSS 6.2 has 434 ft lbs. 54 ft lbs difference. My problem is, how does this relate to the real world of for example towing up a hill. Assuming that I have two trucks, one running the 5.0 and one the 6.2. Both are identical otherwise, same tranny, rear end etc. So what does my extra 54 ft lbs do for me, or what does it feel like? If I can tow more, then how much more? I should have less down shifts but how many less. Then there is the question of what amount of load requires all of the available torque? Is it 5k lbs, 8k, etc? In other words, if I am working the 5.0 at less than it's capacity then driving the 6.2 shouldn't feel any different (better)

My point is that 54 ftlbs doesn't appear to be much force as opposed to the weight of a F150 and lets say a 8k trailer behind it. ( I am visualizing myself running along side a truck with a lug wrench and pushing down with 50 lbs, I just don't see much extra happening- besides me getting hurt. )

So how can I understand what the extra 54 ft.lbs will do for me, If I can't drive those two identical trucks up the same hills and see how much better acceleration and/or less downshifting the 6.2 has over the Coyote.

 

let me know as well too please.
If it makes you feel any better i work on aircraft engines that produce 19,600 lbs of torque and i still don't get it completely, for the truck that is!

 

One thing to consider is at what rpm the two engines make their peak torque numbers.

For example...(these are made up numbers)
The new 5.0 may make 380 lb-ft at 4000 rpm (at 2500 it may only make 250 ft-lb)
The new 6.2 may make 434 lb-ft at 2500 rpm

The difference would be huge while pulling a load.

 

Tourque = 5.4L
No tourque = 5.3L Gm.

Drive both and you'll know the difference.

last few years the 5.4L has had @ 30 ft lbs more than the 5.3L and you can notice it. so I suspect 54 ft lbs will also be noticable. The other factor is where does it make it as per last post. EB will make it from 1500 on.

You should know from your tractors. When your pulling somehting through a wet spot and your rpms fall and you think the ol girl will stall out but somehow it holds the revs and pulls through.... that was tq.

 

When it comes to trucks and towing a bigger engine wins very time.. all else being equal, because more displacement produces more TQ at lower rpms and that means the load can be moved with less RPM and that improves milage and extends engine life. I'm not so sure forced induction is a suitable substitute for displacement on a gasoline motor either, increased combustion pressures is usually acompanied by increased pre-ignition problems at low rpms so we'll have to wait and see if Ford has sucessfully addressed this with the new Ecoboosts.

 

John Deere calls that Power Bulge. According to Deere, the particular engines that I have develops a 8.5% increase in hp to pull through the tough spots. But they call it hp not torque. The only real world comparison that I can make is going from a tractor with 52 PTO hp to one with 65. I could pull my 15' batwing mower about 3 gears faster but once again we are talking hp here as some tractors don't give torque specs (the old one wasn't a DEERE )



I don't have torque curves to compare the 5.0 to the 6.2 but the coyote makes max torque at 250 rpm less than the 6.2 (4250 vs 4500) so that has to apply to the equation as well and that might make the coyote feel stronger at least in certain parts of the power band.

Maybe when Ford has those ecoboost "try it yourself" demos across the country they will have the other engines their as well and have trailers to tow. If not maybe I can convince my dealer to let me hitch up my stock trailer to their trucks and give them a try. I have a 14' bumper pull and with 4 cows in it should weigh about 7500 lbs. I should be able to find out real quick.

We have a hill east of town callled PawPaw Hill. Back in the olden days cars (Model T's and A's) had to backup the hill because it was so steep- I guess the cars had more power in reverse. That would be a perfect place for a test. Start each truck from a dead stop and go full throttle to the top pulling 10k lbs. (BTW today's Chevy trucks can't make that hill

 

Well, Torque = Horsepower * 5252/RPM. In fact, dynos do not actually measure hp, they measure torque and then calculate hp.

Also remember that hp = work done over a period of time.

But what does this mean?

Torque is the measurement of the engine's ability to twist the crank which gets the truck moving. A truck with a higher peak torque will accelerate quicker, providing the gearing is optimized to get the engine into it's peak torque RPM range.

Also remember that the DBW systems are actually torque limiting systems. Mike Butler (5Star Tuning) has a great explanation on his website.

 

Problem lies with the "all else being equal". Typical thats not the case. EB has already proved that forced induction WITH DI does work very well. Its not like the EB hasn't been out for a while now.

 

Not to hijack the thread but as an aside:
When I was first learning about cars, I heard about "old time cars" doing that and I remember asking my Dad about it, was the gear ratio different?
He told me that Low and Reverse were the same but the model T had a gravity feed fuel system (before fuel pumps). So, on a steep hill, because of the slope, drivers would have to turn around and back up the hill in reverse to get gas to the engine.

 

Hey, thanks for the information. I did not know that. Also, welcome to the forum.

 

Sure.. all reports are it works quite well in a car, but how well does it "work" when it's got 10k strapped behind it climbing through the Smokies?

 

here is something else to keep in mind with the 2011 trucks, and comparing the torque difference. they are saying (they meaning fomoco) that all of the 11 trucks are going to use the same 6 speed tranny. the difference is going to be that each tranny is going to matched specifically the the engine. meaning that you won't be able to use a v6 tranny with a v8. (obviosly) but that also means that the tranny for the 5.0 will be different than the tranny for the 6.2. not to say that they won't be able to bolt onto the different engine, it just means that how they are geared and tuned will be different. i can see this cause headaches for salvage yards and garages in the future

 

It depends. I've towed better with my 6.0 then pulling the same load along the same route with engines with more displacement. Then you have the engines had have more displacement, but are lacking 2 cylinders go figure compared to mine.

If these new vehicles were just the mechanical parts and nothing electronic on it, then I might(I stress might) go with the more displacement is better, but not with tuning and the other modern electronics that are on these vehicles. Too many different ways to tweak these things to just say that in of itself, having more displacement is better.

 

Since Ford has rated the ecoboost at a towing capacity of 11,300 and they are banking their future on this engine I bet it will do quite well. They have been testing the engine in F150 mules for around two years so they should know a lot about it's reliability, capability and fuel economy.

I will be at pickuptrucks.com BBQ before the State Fair of Texas and be one of the first to see the ecoboost. Also the marketing manager and chief engineer will be there to answer questions

 

Mike @ PUTC commented thats the one place where the EB should be a step up over the 6.2L. Turbos are wonderfull in less dense air.