Oh God!!! We don't even need to mention Bill Hewitt again.

 

Do any of you think people bash the 6.0L because the ones that complain are the ones that chip it and modify the truck? I heard the truck just has too much power for the head bolts? Especially when its modified its just too much for the truck...

The only mod on my 6.0L is that it is straight piped and honestly it has done nothing but improve the truck in my opinion...

 

That surprises me about the tranny. EGR valves, EGR cooler(was the Oil Cooler done as well?), I could argue a couple of ways, but the tranny just surprises me.

I would say that there is some of that, although, I doubt very much that those people would even acknowledge their hand in that or they might have not even made that connection. There were a lot of things that went on around the time period of the 6.0s early years that make some things hard to figure out.

Here is my take on that. I think that Ford had these trucks within very very tight specs. Combine those tight specs with a high performance diesel engine that required special care above and beyond what most people associate with diesel engines(but not all that different from high performance engines in general) and in stock form people that really weren't educated about these engines could do a great deal of damage. I would bet in those early years more people were tuning those trucks then weren't tuning(even the old school farmers I would imagine were tuning these trucks, particularly with the great results tuners/chips had for the 7.3s) and that created a dangerous situation.

Were there some trucks that were just bad out of the "box", I would be a fool for not thinking that it wasn't atleast possible and not all of those trucks were due to owner and/or tech incompentence. However, here is the rub, how do we seperate those that are legitimate "evils" of the 6.0 engine and what can be attributed to an outside force? Especially considering that the outside force(whatever or whomever it may be), may not have even been connected to that?

I can go on and on about this. No one, unfortunately, will be able to offer a conclusive determination in this case. Sure some will think that they have, but they really won't be able to. Too many things went on that makes it very hard to say with the force of logic behind it one way or the other conclusively.

 

Well, with almost 7 years experience working on the Internationals with the 6.0L (VT365), I have never seen a head gasket problem occur. Only warped heads (that was on a new reman engine). The International runs less horsepower than the Ford pickup models, and the cooling system is much more rugged to handle any sort of high load, high heat situation that might happen to occur.

I think the higher horsepower and extra heat produced on a cooling system that is almost "maxed out" is what makes the engine so much more prone problems in the pickup truck.

We have customers of 2003 model 6.0L Internationals pushing 200,000 miles and have never had a cylinder head off.

We also never change oil coolers because we have never had a problem with them.

Most common problems are turbo, EGR and fuel system problems, just as the pickups have.

 

Okay, I need someone to tell me what's up with the Bill Hewitt thing. Being a new 6.0L owner, I have found his website very informative, and frankly the information he publishes has substantiated much of what I have learned from this forum about the 6.0 problems and how to try and avoid them.

So whats the deal?

 

He is a salesman. I will let the experienced techs here detail the flaws in his presentations.

 

I love my 2004. I admit it had its issues but it is a solid truck now.....starts everyday, leaks minor oil and pulls my stuff without complaining.

The only f'ing complaint I have is why the hell did they make it so dang hard to R&R the heads. I would have studded this thing years ago if I dodn't have to remove the cab......and yes I know there are other ways.

Take Care
Joe

 

Cars are built around parts. Some take a heater motor, and build the car around it. Some use the wiper motor or the dashboard. Ford decided to use the engine in this case.

Sometimes there isn't much other way around it without increasing the cost of the vehicle due to changes required for accessibility and maintenance. Function and fashion are the most important I have come to learn. They usually override any other aspect of how a vehicle is put together. It has to look good, and it has to work, thats all that 90% of car owners need, and want. It only comes to nip them in the butt when they wonder why the bills for maintaining and repairing the vehicle are so high.

 

I don't know those specific years, but in 2009 Ford sold more Super Duties than GM and Dodge sold 2500 and 3500's combined. Restating that, if you add up all the 2500's and 3500's that GM and Dodge sold, Ford sold more Super Duties.

Like I said, that was in 2009, but I doubt those sales came overnight, so certainly they have been selling well for quite some time.

 

My biggest issue with the 6.0 is that I'm afraid to get one.

Lets face it, most people get rid of their trucks/cars when they start having problems with them. While I don't think the 6.0 is the worst engine (maybe the worst PSD), I think you are far more likely to find a bad one in the used market than say a bad 7.3 or 6.4 (depending on what side of the scale you are on). I think the 6.0 was running near it max given the hardware it had, and when a "weaker" one came off the line, it may have been pushed to much. This is probably the reason you see people that have had all new engines before 15,000 miles. Combine that with the fact that thing can get very costly very quickly, and you have problems.

Use the OP's EGR for example, say he didn't clean it. Eventually other parts would have started to fail and his $2 fix would have turned into a $2000 fix or more.

People want to just put fuel in the vehicle and go. They don't want to take the time to maintain many different parts of it. Most people I know barely change the oil when they are suppose to in their gas cars/trucks. This is also a reason I went with a gas engine. I'm lazy, don't want to deal with urea cartridges and lots of maintenance, although the number one reason was cost of the PSD.

 

I would say that there are a lot of people out there thinking that, however, it is more likely a lack of knowledge about the engine specifically that feeds that fear.

If I was to actually be able to get to the nitty gritty of a lot of claims that people have of their crappy 6.0s, I wonder how many of those would seem legit versus those that could have another possible alternative as to why their vehicle went south.

Unfortunately, most people don't know the specifics behind why they needed an all new engine before 15k. People hide the fact when they do a big no-no and they are aware of the fact that they did a big no-no. That fact isn't fully disclosed and there is a lot of that and I hear of a lot of recommendation of users on here to actually defraud Ford on warranty claims by telling a lie that they didn't modify it so their warranty wasn't denied when it could have clearly been possible that their modification might have caused the issue. Now do they run the risk of being denied if they are up front and honest, yes they do, but that's a risk that they willingly accepted when they put those modifications on their truck.

Is it possible that the 6.0 is truly a lemon of an engine, yes it is possible. Will anybody be able to conclusive say that's so? No, a lot of people might think they can, but they really can't. Too many other variables out there that people can't get the true numbers as to legit claims versus non-legit(for whatever reason).

That's the case with anything that is negligated when there is something wrong with it. Costly is relatively of course, but even if you don't do a cheap repair on a 7.3 it will cascade into a costlier repair later on. Now will it cost as much as if the same thing happens to a 6.0 or later, probably not unless the part(s) are scarce or labor cost is high, but it will be a costlier fix then just fixing it initially. That's true with any vehicle, that isn't 6.0 specific.


Overall, I believe that you are correct(especially considering the people in the F-150 5.4 forums don't know safe operating range of PIDs for their vehicles while they are recited daily here for the 6.0 and other SDs), however, that isn't an engine issue that is an owner/upkeep issue. If "you" aren't willing to do what it takes to keep up with the vehicle that "you" want or claim that "you" need, then that's "your" fault. Don't buy it and treat it like that and expect to be able to bitch about how bad the engine is.

These are high performance engines that need to be kept up as such. Not any different then Testirosas or Massarates(I know I misspelled both of those) and those cost a helluva a lot more then ours do.

Some of the extra stuff that I would suggest for 6.0 users, I would actually suggest for people to use no matter what the truck is(not so much cars, but trucks yes). Gauges being the biggest one. I have had major repair work on all stock 5.9 and a 7.3 and I would have probably known sooner of what was going on if I had gauges like I do on my 5.4 and on my 6.0. Upkeep would be another thing that I would be religous on. I don't do fuel and oil additives and I actually am not an advocate of the coolant filter.

That's just my take on it anyway.

 

I am thinking that there was a large number of people and companies however that might have been waiting for the 6.0L years to end and bought SD's in 2008 and 2009. That is why I am more interested in the sales for the latter end of the 03 thru 07 era.

Getting back to an earlier post about the oil cooler, someone said that the oil coolers were made differant for the International engine. Assuming they allowed more or less restricted flow. I guess they do not interchange if this is true, or people would be doing the swap, correct?

 

Let me rephrase that: I'm afraid of getting one that was a problem for someone else, probably because they did not upkeep it properly. I don't want their improper upkeep to become my problem.

 

Now that I can totally understand and that is my fear with ever buying a used vehicle. That's why the depreciation hit that I take when I buy new is worth it to me and with my certainty of not getting someone else's problem.

Now it could still be my problem, but I actually haven't had that happen(yet) until I get some yrs on them.

 

while that is true, when it comes to a turbo engine the problems can cascade to become much more costly much faster.




I didn't need a diesel, nor did I want to spend the money on it. Hence the reason I got the V10. So why spend more for an engine I didn't need that cost more to maintain? My V10 used to pull my 12k lb horse trailer just fine.

Let's be clear, I agree with most of what you say here. I've not owned a 6.0, I did have a 7.3 before the V10 though. I think quite a bit of the problem here is that the 7.3 could take quite a bit of abuse where as the 6.0 could not. People bought the 6.0 thinking it could be chipped and abused like the 7.3 and be fine. Then they where surprised when things were not fine.

Again, you buy these cars knowing what you are getting into, most people have no idea of the maintenance behind some of these trucks. I know a Ferrari 360 clutch costs about $5,000 and it needs one every 15,000 miles or so, and most people in that market know that too. Most first time diesel owners don't realize everything that goes into it.