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1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

gauges

 
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Old 08-02-2010, 07:34 PM
lgwitt
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gauges

did i understand that you can replace the sending unit voltage regulator on a 52 f1 with one from a later 12 volt truck and not have to use voltage reducers on the gauges.

I am doing a 52 and and using 12 volt.

Thanks
 
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lgwitt View Post
did i understand that you can replace the sending unit voltage regulator on a 52 f1 with one from a later 12 volt truck and not have to use voltage reducers on the gauges.

I am doing a 52 and and using 12 volt.

Thanks
There is no such thing as a sending unit voltage regulator.

If you are going to use your stock gauges on your 52 with a 12 volt electrical system then the 12 volts used needs to be reduced to 6 volts using voltge reducers - either one designed for all the gauges or individual gauge reducers.

Some folks have stated that 6 volt gauges were installed on later model 12 volt trucks and had voltage reducers on them. I have never seen this but my experience with the late 50s early 60s trucks is limited.

If you want to use your stock gauges here is a thread with a procedure for installing individual voltage reducers.

If you buy or make a reducer to handle all three gauges then it simply is connected between yout power source and the gauge (on the metal shunt connector shown in the picture connecting the power studs of all three gauges).

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...12-volt-2.html
 
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Julies Cool F1 View Post
There is no such thing as a sending unit voltage regulator.
Lincoln Solid State Voltage regulator for your gauges on eBay.ca (item 270595331178 end time 16-Aug-10 20:30:16 EDT)Solid State Voltage regulator for your gauges
 
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:26 PM
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Hey OLD F1 - read the statement....."Sending unit voltage regulator."

Again, there is no such thing as a "sending unit voltage regulator" especially for the type of gauge systems we have on these trucks.

Despite the nomenclature this vendor used for his parts, this is not a voltage regulator, it is a voltage reducer. Voltage regulators control voltage output and keep it within specific limits when amperage increases or decreases - such as on your generator and alternator voltage regulators. This unit is designed to reduce the (consistant) voltage being supplied to the gauge system, but the gauge system does not have enough variance wrt amperage to require a "regulator".

There's a fine semantical line in the lay terminology - seeing as that a reducer is "regulating" voltage But from a nomenclature standpoint among non-lay disciplines, calling this a voltage regulator instead of a voltage reducer is about the same as calling a machine screw a bolt. Ok you're right noone cares as long as it does the job right? Only ptroblem is when youare trying to unravel electrical problems via the internet, too many of these nomenclature faux pas tend to create more problems that are actually there.

Second, after reading his "proof" I can't help but wonder if he won't be promoting "Snake Oil" next for superior engine lubrication. It's the kind of electrical rationalizations that sound impressive but are really not true. It's the same argument that the salesmen used to use when they tried to sell that cone shaped "voltage enhancer" the you stuck in your distributor that "boosted mileage and efficiency." Fooey!

The Gauge system is going to pull whatever amps it needs to operate at a given wattage. Anything that affects wattage affects amperage, - which affects the accuracy of your reading - especially in low voltage (idle RPM) or high resistance (low fuel) situations.

This unit will probably work fine if you want to reduce all your 6 volt gauges for use on your 12 volt system. So, go buy one.

But FYI, voltage is a function of the entire electrical system. This unit simply reduces power supply voltage to the gauges (or for that matter any other low draw item - like a clock).

But it has nothing to do with the sending units themselves, or the gauges themselves for that matter.
 
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:56 PM
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Hey Bill, what years where these used from / to?

From the net;

This is a typical voltage regulator, which can be found on the back of Mustang instrument panels. Twelve volts enter and approximately five volts exit to provide regulated instrument voltage. When instruments stop working, most of the time it's a faulty voltage regulator. Word to the wise is to use a genuine Motorcraft voltage regulator because some aftermarket replacements have proven troublesome. Trouble-free, solid-state voltage regulators are also available
 
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Old 08-03-2010, 05:00 PM
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12V TO 6V GAUGES

Right on Julie. I have a voltage reducer on my 52. One reducer hooked up to all the original gauges running a 12v system. You're the resident wiring expert!!
 
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Old 08-03-2010, 05:17 PM
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did i use the wrong term. Is there a part from and later model 12 volt system that can reduce/regulate the voltage to 1952 gages.

Les
 
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:32 PM
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While they argue terms, you can find a VR on the back of any Ford gauge cluster thru the mid-70's that will drop your voltage from 12 to less than 6 for your gauges. One drop for all your stuff - it's the simple way to go.

Parts store or boneyard. Happy hunting Les.
 
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Julies Cool F1 View Post

There's a fine semantical line in the lay terminology - seeing as that a reducer is "regulating" voltage But from a nomenclature standpoint among non-lay disciplines, calling this a voltage regulator instead of a voltage reducer is about the same as calling a machine screw a bolt.
I find it interesting you'd make such a fuss over a misplaced word, after the chastising you gave me for pointing out the semantical difference between numbers stamped onto vs. cast into a part.


https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post9003554
 
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:49 AM
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You're absolutely right Wayne. That was argumentative and I'm Sorry!

DRWTPs.
 
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Old 08-04-2010, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by lgwitt View Post
did i use the wrong term. Is there a part from and later model 12 volt system that can reduce/regulate the voltage to 1952 gages.

Les
No, it will work just fine and better than ever.

It uses a LM2596 SIMPLE SWITCHER Power Converter 150 KHz 3A Step-Down Voltage Regulator (manafacture descripition "National semiconductors of North America") They are a ISO / TS16949 company .

It is a regulator. It regulating the pulses (150khz) to give you a steady voltage. Its filtered by capcitors and inductors to give you a perfect dc voltage.
 
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ic237 View Post
No, it will work just fine and better than ever.

It uses a LM2596 SIMPLE SWITCHER Power Converter 150 KHz 3A Step-Down Voltage Regulator (manafacture descripition "National semiconductors of North America") They are a ISO / TS16949 company .

It is a regulator. It regulating the pulses (150khz) to give you a steady voltage. Its filtered by capcitors and inductors to give you a perfect dc voltage.
Oh now we are going to start talking about pulses in voltage (on direct current?). Another technically sounding (if not wonderfully articulated gramatically) rationalization with no factual substance. "Power Converters" that "step down" voltage are "Voltage reducers." If it has additional buffering components that can provide a consistant voltage when system voltage is lower than needed, then in fact it is also a voltage regulator.

And yes you did use the wrong terminology. For the forth time there is no such thing as a "sending unit voltage regulator." And, that's not what this is either. But that's not at all important - all of us here do the same things regularly. I was just trying to teach you something.

Call it a power or voltage regulator/reducer or whatever you will, but again for the fourth time it has NOTHING to do with your sending units. It simply reduces and maintains the power input supplied to the gauge cluster.

And, the unit that was posted will work perfectly to reduce your voltage just fine to allow you to use your 6 volt gauges. Modern gauges on printed circuits are the type that require regulating (like the Mustang referenced earlier) because of the sensativity to amperage increases of that fragile type of curcuit design.

But the fact is at 6 volts (reduced) on 3 amps (maximum) draw on a 16 to 18 AWG wire, there really isn't enough variation (or pulses) that need to be "regulated" that will prevent an indication error that isn't already exceeded by the inherent instrumentation error (spec is 10%) of the 50s OEM set up anyway. In other words, the gauges as built aren't accurate enough for these pulses to matter. And they were built strongly enough to last 60 years + without the need for "regulators" on them.

The electrical systems on these trucks are extremely fundamental and very ruggedly constructed. Your not going to hurt your gauge or the sending unit with any "pulses" the system might provide.

So, it's alot of mute talk for little to no results.

I'm not trying to be belittling. But if you walk into a reliable parts vendor and ask them for a "sending unit voltage regulator," after smiling, they aren't going to know what you are talking about and probably try to hand you something that connects to your generator.
All you need is a voltage reducer. If the unit you find incorporates a regulator then super - but it's not necessary on these gauges.

Again, buy that unit, it will do what you need it to do, and probably do it very well.
 

Last edited by horsepuller; 08-04-2010 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Julies Cool F1 View Post
Oh now we are going to start talking about pulses in voltage (on direct current?). Another technically sounding (if not wonderfully articulated gramatically) rationalization with no factual substance. "Power Converters" that "step down" voltage are "Voltage reducers." If it has additional buffering components that can provide a consistant voltage when system voltage is lower than needed, then in fact it is also a voltage regulator.

And yes you did use the wrong terminology. For the forth time there is no such thing as a "sending unit voltage regulator." And, that's not what this is either. But that's not at all important - all of us here do the same things regularly. I was just trying to teach you something.

Call it a power or voltage regulator/reducer or whatever you will, but again for the fourth time it has NOTHING to do with your sending units. It simply reduces and maintains the power input supplied to the gauge cluster.

And, the unit that was posted will work perfectly to reduce your voltage just fine to allow you to use your 6 volt gauges. Modern gauges on printed circuits are the type that require regulating (like the Mustang referenced earlier) because of the sensativity to amperage increases of that fragile type of curcuit design.

But the fact is at 6 volts (reduced) on 3 amps (maximum) draw on a 16 to 18 AWG wire, there really isn't enough variation (or pulses) that need to be "regulated" that will prevent an indication error that isn't already exceeded by the inherent instrumentation error (spec is 10%) of the 50s OEM set up anyway. In other words, the gauges as built aren't accurate enough for these pulses to matter. And they were built strongly enough to last 60 years + without the need for "regulators" on them.

The electrical systems on these trucks are extremely fundamental and very ruggedly constructed. Your not going to hurt your gauge or the sending unit with any "pulses" the system might provide.

So, it's alot of mute talk for little to no results.

I'm not trying to be belittling. But if you walk into a reliable parts vendor and ask them for a "sending unit voltage regulator," after smiling, they aren't going to know what you are talking about and probably try to hand you something that connects to your generator. All you need is a voltage reducer. If the unit you find incorporates a regulator then super - but it's not necessary on these gauges.

Again, buy that unit, it will do what you need it to do, and probably do it very well.
Wow! Thats all I got to say.

I just made a casual correction also. Whats really neat about this regulator is that you cant really call it a reducer. Its more like a transformer, believe it or not. Power on the input matches the power on the output. Thats where the pulses come on. What I am trying to say is if the input was 10 volts and 1 amp the output would mirror the incoming power with 1 volt and 10 amps. A reducer would have a common current on the incoming and outgoing like in the case with a resistor. The battery supply coming in has nothing to do with what is coming out. The grounds are bonded to unite both sources. Its really a whole new power supply. After its said and done.

And by the way, I love your grammer.

Ivan
 

Last edited by horsepuller; 08-04-2010 at 02:38 PM.
  #14  
Old 08-04-2010, 02:25 PM
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Ivan,

It sounds like a really neat thing, and I am always looking for a better solution to this voltage change problem with the gauges than installing individual Runtz reducers.

Are you the guy selling these on e-bay?
 
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:08 PM
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Those runtz reducers are very simple and basic. Which is a fact. The problem with those is that they are fixed and are limited to one per gauge. I know for a fact alot of fords, lincolns, mercurys, dodges, plymouth, jeeps, amc , and some Europen cars dont use the full 6v. Its my business to know exactly what they need. What it boils down to at the end of the day is 5.1 or 5.6. If the runtz is at 6 then you will have gauges reading very high. I have yet to buy one and test it. But as with any diode, i am sure the voltage sags as the load increase. They tend to work very well with cars pre-50's that had original 6v bateries. As you said before accuracy was horrible at best. There is a lot of swing in the system to begin with. a) the regulator turns on and off, and its rate depends on the time it takes for a piece of metal to cool. b) the gauge's needle moves to the tune of heat that it sees. c) senders are not linear by any stretch of the imagination. d) ambient temp takes it tolls.
It was a marvel , even to get anything right.

Installing a solid state regulator helps you odds at the end of the day by atleast 1/4 . You can eliminate the loose play of the moving arm. All other factors still apply. Atleast its a step in the right direction. In my humble opinion.
 

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