You realize the bearings are half shells right?Bearings are composed of a steel or aluminum back,COPPER bonded to the backing,and a tin overlay adhered to the COPPER overlay.What did the upper rod bearing halves look like?They are the ones that take the beating.Time to pull the engine,teardown,look at all damage,and start a parts list.

 

Ah, no, I didn't know that at all. Well that makes alot more sense then. Thinking about it now, and knowing that all that copper, and there was alot, was coming out in flakes that big from just one or two bearings, you're right, that does sound pretty bad.
Well I started tear down last night anyway, guess I'll keep going with that today. I'll keep you guys updated and I have another question but I think I'll start another thread.
Thanks for the help here though, AleX.

 

with lots of copper trash in the pan, i'd be just as worried about a set of rods that won't move at all. they're supposed to have a little movement side to side(connecting rod side clearance), if the bearings are coming apart the loose chunks will bind up the clearances.

from your description of the copper trash in the pan, that motor's coming out and will need a lot of help for sure.

no idea how you got to this point?

 

Read posts 1 & 7. Cam, headers, 4bbl on an original (afaik) bottom end, possibly a '71 bottom end.... And, he ran it a lot once the bearings were making serious noise.

To the OP, don't feel bad, you are far from the first guy this has happened to. Be advised, there are no shortcuts now. I has to come all the way apart, and you have to inspect everything, and all the bearings etc, including the cam bearings, need to be replaced AND the block and oiling system need to be rodded out, AND you need a new oil pump. And pistons, rings, valve seals and a host of other items....You'll figure it out.

 

i'm gonna guess...



BTW, all connecting rods are D1AE, they were never changed. wrist pins date back to C6AZ and piston ring sets are C3AZ

and yes, it happens to the best of us

 

Ayayay, I didn't even know there where cam bearings.
So basically, since there was metal in the oil, and it was run like that for so long (not forever but at least a few hundred miles), every bearing surface in the engine, even ones completely unrelated to the current problem areas, has to be redone since the abrasive oil circulates over everything. OK I understand the logic on that now, but yikes, this is a mess.
Will I likely have to get a new cam, or is there just no way to know before I inspect everything?

 

Also, what's rodding out? Like getting metal out of the oil passages, like pipecleaner type of thing? Or is it more real machining that has to be done?
Thanks for the help, and be ready cus I'm diving in and I'm about to need alooot more haha, AleX.

 

don't you WANT a new cam? guaranteed the cam & lifters are worn & need replacing regardless of any damage on the bearing journals

yes, rodding out is cleaning the oil passages with rifle bore type brushes, there are plugs on each end of the block(can be hard to remove if you don't know the trick) and many other internal passages that need to be thoroughly cleaned

you should really get a copy of the Tom Monroe book 'how to rebuild your 351C, 351M/400...

 

Nono not at all actually. I just redid the entire top end less than 500 miles ago. That's what caused all of these problems, new stuff in an oooold engine. I put in a new cam, lifters, timing set, valve springs, retainers, intake, and 4 bbl. That's alot of why I'm so frustrated that I'm having problems again now. I took the time to redo the top end and now have to put in more time, plus it ran GREAT at first, but it lasted barely any time at all.
Speaking of time, just a general estimate, if I'm working full days on this, but have to go to the computer or the shop or the phone and learn alot of what I'm doing as I go, and after factoring in time to get stuff machined, decide on and order parts, and put everything back together, how much time should this whole project take me?

 

oh yeah, i have trouble remembering everybody's whole story... there's a chance that the cam bearing journals are OK, and you'll get a chance to see if the cam broke in well

it could take only a day after you get a clean block with cam bearings installed correctly from the machine shop. if you don't have any experience installing piston/rod assemblies into the block, you might want to have them assemble at least the shortblock then put the heads on yourself & install it

 

Take the engine all the way down.As you tear it down,look for a primary failure.The secondary and progressive damage is all after the fact.If you cannot remove the pipe and expansion plugs,the machine shop can.Have them drive out the old cam bearings as well.Take the block and main caps w/bolts with you.Take the piston/rod assemblies,and crank as well.Have the block vatted and cleaned.Have your main bores sized and the align bore for the mains checked.Size the cylinder bores,and see if they are worn beyond spec.You may find that it is a candidate for a first oversize bore.Have the crank checked,as you are probably going to find it has to be ground to at least the first undersize.Have the cam bearing bores sized in the block and repaired if needed.You will need to replace that cam and the lifters as they are gone.Have the piston and rod assemblies pressed apart.Check the rods for damage on both the small and big ends.If they check out,have the shop check them for straightness and twist.Have them sized and install new bolts.Or get a set reman rods.Probably cheaper in the long run.Decide what you want to do with heads at this time as well.The shop can turn your work in a few days.You need to talk with them about the cost of labor.Good work is not cheap.In answer to your question about the the time frame for your project,how long will your funds hold out?Also,you are new to this and it will take some time to do a good job of it.Everyone here has gone through this.As grclark351 mentions,you really should pickup a rebuild/overhaul guide and study it before attempting this project.The folks that haunt this forum will be happy to share their experience and advice if you need it.Sorry about writing a novel,and the loooong post!

 

actually the stock rod bolts should be OK to go again, but the nuts are a problem. they stress fracture and new good quality replacements should be installed every time they're off

 

maybe the fastest easiest way is to just order a reman'd shortblock at the parts store

 

So, heads are off, block is coming out soon, making progress.
With progress though comes problems, and the one of this afternoon is, the passenger side head is visibly cracked between the valves in two of the combustion chambers. Some questions about that:
1. Probably sky high on the duhhh scale, but, no way to reuse or recondition a cracked head I'd assume correct?
2. Is the area between the valves a common place for a head to fail?
3. Not sure about driver's side head, no visible cracks, but the head gasket looked intact, and there is what I think is coolant residue in the exhaust pipe from that side, so it had to come from somewhere. I think it would be smart to replace both heads with new ones, but I'm trying to save money of course, so if I brought the driver's side head to the machine shop and got it pressure tested, and it came back sound, would it be adviseable at all to put it back in the engine with a new head on the other side?
4. All of my intake valves were black, so were the piston tops. Some of my exhuast valves were tan-white, a few were black, some of my spark plugs were tan instead of black, some of the combustion chambers and tops of pistons had close to 1/8" of sludge on them, some were clean, and some of my exhaust valves had whiteish tan, pretty thick concretions on them. What can anyone tell me, based on this, about the general health of my engine? (I assume not good, but what do the specific colors and buildups mean?)
More to come, but Thanks, AleX

 

Well you could fix your head but i wouldn t recommend it, i cracked one of my heads around where you cracked yours, i had coolant everywhere (youll be surprised how fast coolant spreads along). Si i had it fixed and preassured tested. The engine ran good for a short while and started overheating but no wateroil, so i took the head of and it was dripping very little water, so little the cylinder was burning it adn thus no water oil but my cooling system was loosing preassure, refixed it adn shortly after the same cr@p. I ended up buying new aluminum cylinder heads.....