Well, here's the same ole' subject again...the manual vs auto debate,-bout as old as the gas vs diesel debate I reckon'.

Trouble is I've never ever read a thread on the subject where anyone could offer real life use and abuse scenario's or experiences-just mostly "auto cause its easier","stick's are more fun", "auto ,cause it got a torque converter/multiplier", "sticks offer better downshifting/more gears",etc,etc.

Leads me to believe there are alotta guys driving either cause thats what "Dad drove",or from something they've read on the subject.
To be honest up front,all my father ever drove was stick.
My Uncle was a stick man too.
My Grandfather drove stick all his life til arthritis set in to his shoulder -from then on it was always auto for him.
My Uncle is a true blue Ford man.
My Father and Grandfather swore up and down by Chevrolet.

All three were together in the horse business,training and racing,but more often then not those horses didint even cover their own upkeep-(very expensive trade there),so construction was the family's mainstay income-the horses turned out to be an expensive ongoing hobby with some occasional cashflow.

My Dad had a 72'Chevrolet C-20 he named"Betsy"/w 350/holley 4 barrel carb -pretty fancy truck for the time-it had power steering!

Uncle Mike had a 72' F-250 he named "Nellie"/with 351 motor/2 brl carb-it too had power steering!

Gramps saw his two sons with new 3/4 ton trucks -and liked the floor mounted 4 speed so much-that even he was willing to buy one of "The over priced things",and traded his 68' 3speed on the column Chevy for a new 73' Chevy C-30 -but was still unwilling to pay the extra money for the power steering option...lol.

Well let me tell you one thing-all three of these trucks were DOGGED! They werent just used or abused-they were PUNISHED!!

Trust me when I tell you-these werent the kind of people who bought trucks as a status symbol...lol,in those days status symbols were Cadillac's and Chrysler NewYorker's-in fact I can say honestly that unless they really needed trucks they'd never even consider buying one.

Those trucks were all sticks- and I couldint even imagine an automatic made at that time,for one day taking the kind of abuse those things took on a regular basis.
When people talk about "stump pulling power",it conjures up actual memories I have of these trucks doing just that, along with pulling barns down, and once pulling a 70 ft mobile home about 40 miles or so to its new destination, when my Uncle sold it.

1981,my Gramps shoulder was so shot he could'int take the shifting anymore,and went and bought a new chevy 1/2 ton Bonanza with 3 speed auto-he was retired from the family construction company and just needed something for hauling antiques around. He always said he "missed the power".

In 1986,Betsi was finally shot-after 3 rebuilds my father did himself. So he went shopping around a bit and was considering all three major brands(my Uncle tried to convince him of Ford,and it almost worked)in the end he ended up with an 86' Dodge Ram 250/w 318 and 4 speed on the floor(this was the very 1st truck I was old enough to drive)-he regretted it almost to the day he bought it"shoulda went Chevy","God da**-what was I thinking?"

The fact was that the Dodge rear leaf springs were VERY inadequete for a 3/4 ton truck-even I could tell that at the time(Betsy had 9 leaves-Nellie had 6 + 2 helpers-the new Dodge had just 4).

Alway's putting down his new Dodge(which I as a good son agreed to) he never the less went about workin the crap out of it..lol.
By this time my Uncle's Ford was retired from the road and used only as a farm truck(And being true blue-he waited for the "new" body style and got himself an 87' F-250 with the same 351 motor he'd had for the last 15+ years).
My Dad went and bought another 5 acre tract of property to build a new farm for the horses and it was at this time that I got to get in on the "Land clearing" end of things.
I gotta tell you-THERE'S NOTHING as awesome as ripping a 30-40 foot tree out by it's roots with a 3/4 ton truck!(5 acres of them)

I'd always seen my Dad and his brother do it-but not until I'd actually done it myself was I able to fully apreciate the power and durability of a stick transmission-that experience more than any other convinced me of 2 things..1 Stick shifters are in fact the toughest strongest transmissions going and auto's arent even close....2 -Like the old timers said, it is in fact "in the gearing".

No modern day diesel equipt truck with auto tranny could hope to pull that off(I might be wrong but I doubt it - I'd have to see it to believe it).
Truck pulling contests?...lol-not even close!
In a pulling contest 2 trucks start off back to back-with all the slack taken out before the actual pull begins-then it's merely a matter of traction and experience.
Now,lets suppose we had a pulling contest with all the slack left in?
Let's suppose we have a contest where two trucks chained together start off with 40 ft of slack and try bustin the other guy down.
Not a pulling contest-a durability contest-where the loser ends up with a wrecked transmission?
And if at 1st(low) you dont succeed,back it up and try again,and again,and again!

The stick WILL come out the winner-no doubt about it...lol.

I would BET THE FARM that in such a contest my F-250SD/w 5.4/ 6 speed would completely wreck any chevy truck with one of those fancy Allison's in it...lol.

And though many here wont want to hear this, any chevy 6.0L/w 6speed would do the same to any 6.0 powerstroke w Torqueshift transmission...lol.-and dont even get me started on diesel manual vs diesel auto-it'd be a ONE SHOT DEAL for sure...lol.

Don't get me wrong-I know today's auto's are pulling monsters-and I know no one here-myself included is going to spend 20,000 + on a new truck to use it as some kind of half azzed farm tractor,but when people talk about "stump pulling"power-
it
's nice to know that as long as i've got a stick.....I'VE ACTUALLY GOT IT!!!...lol....regards.

 

Yikes, that was long post!!!

To tell you the truth and you said it , I have my auto 250 because it's easy and my daily driver. I have my 350psd stick, because it is a work truck, pulls the trailers, etc, and I got it for a little under 9k so it sure fit the budget. Of course I had to throw in another 5k to fix it, but a heck of a lot cheaper in the long run.

I sure like the auto for plowing snow though!!!

 

snow plowing, definately, just build in the cost of a new tranny into the bills (you mean i'm supposed to stop before shifting? but that's so slow. )

But yeah, real world
Stick baby. All the way.
What's the weak point on these trucks? almost always the auto tranny, cuz it can't handle the power.

Plus, a well driven stick can go much better in the snow/ice/downhill/etc. You also get better mileage (which ok, is pretty minor in trucks that get like 10mpg, i mean, who cares? it's a truck)

I love pulling stumps although it's been many years, just jerking that chain and watching the front wheels coming off the ground. errrrrrrr whump.

 

Sticks were great and still are great but all these
tranys, be it auto or stick are to lightly made
all zf 's are cast aluminum ,don't use real gear oil like they used to.Now we use thin atf in them which makes them noisey. The transfercases also are made to light .
What your fathers ,fathers did with their trucks
isn't going to happen with these trucks of this day and age ! and run or last as long!
They just are to lightly built even though we think their superduty's they don't compare to trucks of yesterday. look at all the plastic and thin guage metal being used .but we want fuel mpg's .

Well Just my opinion!
I love sticks, always have and my dad drove nothing but sticks till the day he died !
just like I will!!!!!


Rich

 

I can drive a stick if I had to but prefer the auto cuz I'm lazy and cause I know I'm hard on the clutches with my shifting style.

If your the only one driving it and are not hard on them get the manual if you prefer it. If many people are driving it an auto might be a better choice.

In my case I'm lazy and kinda what Yeti said, its sure easier for plowing. I don't think plowing can do much justice on a manual with the constant forward and backing that is done.

 

Darn crotchety old farts.

 

get a stick!!! escpecially if yer gonna tow much. but good luck findin a new or used one!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FortyFords
[B]Sticks were great and still are great but all these
tranys, be it auto or stick are to lightly made
all zf 's are cast aluminum ,don't use real gear oil like they used to.Now we use thin atf in them which makes them noisey. The transfercases also are made to light .
What your fathers ,fathers did with their trucks
isn't going to happen with these trucks of this day and age ! and run or last as long!
They just are to lightly built even though we think their superduty's they don't compare to trucks of yesterday. look at all the plastic and thin guage metal being used .but we want fuel mpg's .

As for the aluminum being lightweight and not able to stand up, I can disagree. I don't now about the new 6 spd for sure, however, we have a 1990 F-250 HD with 5spd and it has 145 miles on it and still good, just needs a new clutch. Sadly, the trans fluid hasn't been changed and haven't ever had to add any. The transfer case I think has been changed though at least once. This hasn't been babied either. It was the primary trailer puller until about 2 years ago. About 3 years ago we had a really heavy wet snow and it was really hard to get around. This pick-up is all we used and we were pushing snow up as high as the hood until it wouldn't move, then back up and start plowing again. It even had enough snow stuff up in the engine to stop the fan from spinning. It has been kind of retired since then though, we use it as a feeding pick-up now and it get's to carry about 1500 lbs. around across the pastures through the winter then gets a sprayer in the back in the summer. That pick-up is what sold me on Fords and manual transmissions.

 

I have driven manual transmission vehicles for a total of at least 500,000 miles.

My brother operates an AAMCO franchise. He states that he can rebuild the automatic transmission in a SD truck for less than the cost of a clutch replacement (dual mass flywheel).

I prefer an automatic transmission on snowy slick roads, in parking lots or other close spots, at the campground backing a trailer, on the boat ramp, and plowing snow.

I really enjoy driving a manual transmission! But as Forty said these newer alumnium case transmissions aren't the same. Later sometime in the second 100,000 miles after pulling many trailers, you may find that the bearings in the case move resulting in a cracked case.

In 1980 I was visiting my grandfather on his farm, driving a loaner from the local dealer.
"Where's your car" said Gramps
I told him it was at the dealer getting the transmission repaired under warranty.
"Dam Automatics" said Gramps
I said "its a stick Gramps"

Now I've changed clutches before and rebuilt automatic transmissions. I've learned that you will have to change out a clutch, but you might have to rebuild an automatic transmission I'll take chances with the Automatic, change my fluid often, and watch the temperature gauge.

 

Well Franktheman I slogged threw your long LOL post... you sure do LOL a lot


The truck chain thing you describe is an every day rite of passage manhood thing here in Lampasas... every teen aged boy with a truck eventually ends up out on a paved county road and chained to some other dummies truck and either pulles his bumper off, frys his clutch, breaks the drive shaft, or just plain wears out a good set of tires. I have participated in this stupid sport..altho I was much younger then, and when my son got his truck, I knew the temptation would be too great for him to learn from the old man's stupidity, so I taught him the "trick"...

He came home a winner and got to see first hand the destruction, so I know he won't abuse his truck that way again.

His lite weight F250, 460, auto, single tire drive, pulled a Dodge diesel, stick, dually down the road!

My 01 auto has a higher tow rating than the exact same truck with manual trans... and the NPXXX transfer case is the HIGHEST rated one made

Stumps are pulled everyday here with auto tranys and if you know what you are doing, you can even sit in Austin traffic with out a left leg cramp..

I will gladly race ANY Ford diesel manual rig, light to light, with my auto V10 and smoke his shifting *** every time LOL

 

Yeah, this is probably true and is probably why they use auto Ts in pro drag racing, but I ask you...Where is the skill in that? Shoot, I could even train my dog to step on the pedal to make the truck go. Racing with a manual (if you chose to race such a heavy truck in the first place) takes skill! Im just sayin, Im manual all the way no doubt. The second happiest day of my life was when i got my new 01 5.4/auto, the happiest day was when i traded it in for a V10/MANUAL!

Also seems to me if you look thru past posts there are far more probs with the autos than the manuals. Not to say the manuals are bullet proof, but IMO they are far superior to the autos anyday.

 

I only read the first two lines of frank "the man"'s version of War and Peace, but somehow I knew it would only deteriorate into this same old thing.

Waxy

 

Keep it up Waxy and I`ll introduce ESOF into the conversation as well!

 

Waxy

 

Sun. 03/05/04 17:56 EST
post #1

I recently purchased a 2003 f-350 with the 5.4L v8 and 6-speed manual transmission. I'm curious to hear feedback from other owners of trucks with these trannies, especially with respect to clutch drag/ease of shifting. What I've been finding so far is that shifting into a forward gear from neutral is at times difficult and not entirely noiseless, almost as if the clutch is not fully disengaging. I have performed a hydraulic bleeding procedure as outlined in the service manual, without improvement.

I'm eager to hear your opinions and experiences.