I'll prolly end up getting a Bronco within the next year, I would like to do a fresh 351 engine with higher compression. Or a 5.8 build.. Not sure of the difference. (I'm a bowtie guy by DNA, but I know my way around pretty well) Ford TRUCKS BABY!

Anyway.. I look at these crate engines through Jegs and the lists seem overwhelming. Maybe the Blue Oval gurus here can narrow things down for me. I'll bookmark this.

I don't want this to break the bank, but I would like to keep the fuel injection and probably get a good upper/lower intake manifold set for a short-block, a good set of FR heads to net me around 10:1 compression. I'll run an MSD ignition, Davis Distributor and aftermarket fuel pump, injectors, rails and regulator and full roller cam, lifters and rockers.

I'm thinking a small cammed 351, full roller, with decent heads and a nice intake would push around 400bhp. This will also be a daily driver, so I don't want anything too radical, but I would like to have some nice power. I'll deal with the transmission when the time comes. For the cam, I would prefer more lift than duration.. I have my reasons.

-What injectors , FP and regulator? Adj regulator?
-What size headers? (LT's)
-3" H pipe be ok? I'd think so..
-Intake recommendations? Ford truck intake w/ dual TBs?
-3.90 gears ok for 36" tires and an automatic?
-2800rpm stall ok?
-Decent heads? Dart? chamber size? 64cc?
-what re the 351 b/s dimensions?
-What would be the MAIN difference pros/cons between the 351 and a 347 (comparison)?

What's the $$$$ guesstamite so far?? I would like to have the engine BUILT and in running condition for about $3500.. Realistic?? Help me out here guys!



GOD I CAN'T WAIT!!! I FINALLY GET 4WD!!! I can go MUDDING!!!

 

The limiting factor with an EFI 351 is the EFI itself, unless you run a MAF conversion. New injectors would be a yes, but the stock rail and regulator are fine for what you're talking about. Factory 351 EFI intake is junk, so you'd need to spend money there.

I'd start with a Bronco that's already got a 351 and preferably one with a roller cam, which means '94 or newer. Otherwise you'll spend $1000 on retro-fit roller cam parts.

For the money (~$1,000) the FRPP X303 heads are about as good as it gets.

Main difference between a 347 and 351 is you'll spend ~$1,000 for the stroker kit to build up a 347.

If you start with a roller block $3,500 is doable for what you want, depending on how much machine work costs in your neck of the woods.

 

^ I'd rather do shaved heads and avoid touching the block as much as possible. So 10:1 c/r is pretty attainable without too much of a problem then?
Heads are where the potential is, so I don't want to go TOO TOO cheap on those, but I don't want to brake the bank either. I MAY think about doing a carb engine, but I'm concerned with their fuel mileage.

I'm having a hard time finding EFI stuff for that engine. And yes, I'd rather find a Bronco with the 351 already in it and just rebuild the top end and freshen the bottom end up. What is the stock bottom end good for? I'll prolly have everything balanced while it's out to get that nice smoooooooth idle..

I'll look into heads now. I'm really amped to get started on this!!


-=EDIT=-

Found a top end kit. I love the price of this stuff compared to my Norm LS* high end expensive part stuff..
No cam details though.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2092/?rtype=10

TFS 61cc chamber heads.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51400004/

They have GT40's but those might be a BIT too cheap. I'll look into the Patriot heads, but TFS has always been ford stuff and their flow numbers even for the LS engines are amazing.

EFI intake.. Summit seems to have more.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-3881/?rtype=7

 

My concern with a carb would be passing emissions testing unless you're planning to go off-road only with this truck. Go check out Ford Fuel Injection for everything you ever wanted to know about Ford EFI.

CR will depend on which pistons you buy more than anything else, and assuming a rebuild you'll probably need some new pistons anyway.

The stock bottom end is good for ~750hp, so no worries there. Just use ARP fasteners all the way around and you're golden.

That top end kit is a flat tappet cam, and a pretty old grind to boot. I like Edelbrock carbs and carb intakes, but there are much better cams out there. Comp's XE grinds are good. The stock EFI is a limiting factor on cam selection though.

I'm confused, are you saying you don't think the FRPP X307 heads cost enough to be a quality part? They flow almost identically to the TFS part you've linked to above. They're not AFRs but for the level of engine you're talking about you wouldn't notice any difference and you'd save enough to almost pay for that intake. Ford Racing M-6049-X307 - Ford Racing GT-40 Cylinder Heads - Overview - SummitRacing.com Would I buy them if I was worried about tenths of a second at the strip? No. For a truck? They're what I put on the 351 I built for my pickup.

 

^ I'm really not familiar with the X307 lingo with these ford parts. Not saying it's not GOOD, I just didn't look into it yet. I've been building an LS1 Camaro for the past 7 years, so this is new parts territory for me.

I think the EFI would be good for emissions, but I'd have to find someone to dyno dune it... The carb is easier to tune, but not emissions friendly. I'd like to do a MAF setup, but that darn TB for the good intakes is EXPENSIVE at $300 for a BBK.

I just didn't think the GT40 heads were THAT good. I heard people rave about them, though. I'd like a NICE set of heads, though. I wouldn't mind trying a set of Edelbrocks, but whatever you guys advise, is fine with me. If I don't have to spend the money, I won't..

-=EDIT=-

Oooooh ok.. I getcha. The "GT40 STYLE" heads.. Same casting, right? Kind of like "LS6 STYLE" heads, but they're PRC or AFR.. I gotcha! I'll get those then!! $480.. Can't argue with that! Even for EACH, that's not too too bad.

As far as the cam, I'm looking for a mild-ish cam.. prolly 114 or 115 LSA, DD-able.
For instance: a small LS1/6 cam would be 224/224 .563/.563 112 LSA. Something not very aggressive that would be kind to the valve springs and have great street manners, but would scream when you open it up, and have some down low grunt. (I've got that in the cam in my Camaro now, but that's a different animal @ 224/228 .637 /639 110 .. yes it is VERY streetable and 440rw capable)

 

Ha!.. OK... first thing you're gonna have to do is forget most of what you know about building an engine, that is partly because of the different brands but it's also because of the difference between what qualifies as "mild" in a car versus a truck. That LS1 may feel torquey in a relatively light car but I guarantee you it won't be quite so spunky in something that weighs ~1000lbs more, that takes more overlap and less intake duration.. or more displacement.

You're on the right track with the heads, the Ford X variants are right up there with the better 3rd party offerings, you could consider RHS and Dart irons as well for maximum durability.
You'll want a car style intake like the Eddy Performer/Pro Products Typhoon or a TFS R-Series with a 75mm TB.

As far as the EFI control system goes, if you start with an MAF truck you'll be miles ahead and just need to add a tuner to make everything cooperate.

 

^ I getcha.. I just don't want TOO aggressive of a cam that will end up killing the gas mileage more than it needs to. From what I've gathered, you can run a pretty heavy duration in these engines, but with a smaller chamber and higher compression, would that still effect PTV clearance? Or not really with these engines? I should be ready to do some Bronco Shopping in about 6 months.

I'll do some looking around and check back. Any idea of a ball park duration/lift I should be looking for?

-=EDIT=-

This one in the ball park? h/r cam. It says 5.0 but it showed up under the 351 search.
283/291 .499/.510 112
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51402000/

 

No.. that's not true at all duration is probably more important that lift in determining P-V clearance. The cam should be the last thing you pick, pick heads and an intake with enough flow potential to deliver your HP goals, then match pistons and chamber sizes to get the desired CR, and then pick a cam to deliver the powerband and engine manners you want. For the most truck friendly powerband you want to maximize TQ output.. even at the expense of a juicy peak HP number, to get that with this displacement you want a cam with low 200ish duration and 110deg overlap. Around the 210deg intake duration range HP and TQ output tends to be equally balanced and above 220deg the emphasis begins to shift to peak HP at the expense of low rpm TQ.
Personally I'd never use a high stall converter in a daily driver, you will kiss goodby to fuel milage for sure. Instead use enough gear to produce about 2000rpm at your hwy cruising speed.

 

OTHER Parts list... Just give it a look over for a FTE Seal of approval.
-Is anything Torque To Yield on this engine?
-If anything is off, just quote it and fix it for me. Make stuff easier and a cleaner thread.

Rod bolts (do I need WavLoc or just loctite?)
ARP 150-6404 - ARP High Performance Series Wave-Loc Connecting Rod Bolts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Main cap bolts
2 or 4 bolt main? 4 bolt I hope... 0_o

Head Bolts
ARP 154-3603 - ARP High Performance Series Cylinder Head Bolt Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Timing gear and chain
Summit Racing SUM-G6651 - Summit Racing® True Roller Timing Sets - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Rockers... Not sure on 3.8 or 7/16 stud/bolt
Proform Parts 66911 - Proform Extruded Aluminum Roller Rocker Arms - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Need 5/16 pushrods, but I'll measure for length when the engine is together.

 

If anything the rods are the weak link in this motor and you can have better rods with ARP hardware for about the same cost as installing ARPs in the stock pieces so don't bother.
All production 351's are 2bolt mains, and stock heads use pedistal rockers but that doesn't apply to aftermarket heads.

 

There's no such thing as a production four bolt main 351w, but they are plenty beefy.

If you're going with the FRPP heads they use pedestal mount rocker arms like these.
Proform Parts 66879 - Proform Pedestal Mount Extruded Aluminum Roller Rocker Arms - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Cam duration ~220 in a 351 should be okay, especially with a roller. What's nasty in a 302 is tamer in a 351. That TFS cam list the power range from 2,000 rpm up, maybe from 1,600 up or so in a 351...

I don't think they ever made a MAF EFI 351, but 94 and 95 5.0 trucks were MAF. On second thought you may be best off finding a 5.0 Bronco from those years and picking up a 351 roller block for your build. Paul, any thoughts there?

 

There were MAF 351s on Broncos, i think in the 95 and 96.

 

Overall there were more 5.0 trucks but the 5.8 does seem to be a little more common in the Bronco and there were MAF versions from '94-96. It's more important to get a MAF vehicle to begin with so if you find a 5.0 truck that's in good shape grab it because once you plug in the tuner it doesn't matter what it was before.

I agree that the 5.8 can produce good results with upwards of 220deg intake duration, it could be called the tipping point where the powerband typically begins to move up the tach... though that point can be raised with increased compression ratio too. Still have to keep in mind that a truck is heavy compared to a car so it needs more TQ to produce what could be considered to be sporty performance, I put that number at 400ft lbs and the lower the rpm you can hit it the better.

 

Outstanding.. Thanx everyone.. Good stuff here. I'll get back to this when I can. I have some time here, but not much. Got a day off, kind of.

 

Say Matthew Sir,
It's wise of you to ask what can be done to increase the power of the motor, I have the same 5.8 in my extended van.

Just looking at mine, it appears it's already factory supped up. I mean even down to the dual exhaust.
Plus it seems the general info is there's not much more to do to get more power than the factory setup.

It seems the only thing I can do is see if the ignition timing can be advance-adjusted some more without causing knocking.
(Plus I'm looking at adding some loose cheap magnets to the gas line, some say if positioned right, can helps declutter the hydro carbons more before burning. Others say there's no such effect.)

But our vehicles are made for hauling. Mine, hauling around the heavy extended length 1 ton van with also 3,000 lbs of people, and a possible trailer.
So these engines is definitely built with torque in mind.

So I think you are barking up the wrong tree aren't you, asking to get something out of the engine that we can't resonably?

So the cure might be to change our attitude and thinking about it.
I mean, why do you want, you say "fun in the power Dept"?

What fun is it throwing around these big heavy vehicles, racing up to stop lights just to stop again?

Isn't there a responsibility, lives depending on what we do and don't do, when we are behind the steering wheel that limits our fun to be had anyway?
Maybe we should leave the real fun where it belongs like in the bedroom and keep it real on the roads where lives are on the line.
Just be happy with the size of the engine that's under our hoods.

The 5.8 isn't the smallest engine available to start with, it's the sweet spot before moving into the biggest 460 gas hog or the diesel.

Take care bud