Tunes?
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Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,580
Likes: 60
Tunes?
This is a multi-sided set of questions. First, are there any good fuel mileage tunes for the 6.4L engine?
That said, all of them probably void the warrenty. For what reason? If a chip is used can it be pulled and not be detectable? Or will there always be a way to trace back to having a tune at any point in the engine/computer's life?
How much of a benefit can a tune offer on a 6.4L with DPF? As in NO DPF delete. Are we talking a couple mpg? 5mpg? 1/2mpg?
My guess is the only way to increase the fuel economy without anything "major" is to lean out the fuel mixture. This gets back in to how the 6.4L is supposed to be "clean" - make the fuel mix rich to decrease nitrogen oxide. The downside is it increases particulate emissions - hence the DPF. So its a double edged sward - you run the engine rich to begin with (more fuel than necessary) and then add even MORE fuel to the regen cycle to burn off the particulate matter in the DPF.
My assumption is any kind of a tune for mileage would have to lean out the fuel mix which would boost the nitrogen oxide emissions, but decrease particulate matter. Is that correct? In which case that would also decrease the regen cycles because it isn't working as hard. Lean fuel mix and lower regen cycles would equate to bigger savings in fuel while not modifying the EPA-compliance hardware (DPF-delete).
If this is all good theory, how likely is it a dealer would void a warrenty if a tune was installed and removed before the vehicle was taken in? What tunes are available?
That said, all of them probably void the warrenty. For what reason? If a chip is used can it be pulled and not be detectable? Or will there always be a way to trace back to having a tune at any point in the engine/computer's life?
How much of a benefit can a tune offer on a 6.4L with DPF? As in NO DPF delete. Are we talking a couple mpg? 5mpg? 1/2mpg?
My guess is the only way to increase the fuel economy without anything "major" is to lean out the fuel mixture. This gets back in to how the 6.4L is supposed to be "clean" - make the fuel mix rich to decrease nitrogen oxide. The downside is it increases particulate emissions - hence the DPF. So its a double edged sward - you run the engine rich to begin with (more fuel than necessary) and then add even MORE fuel to the regen cycle to burn off the particulate matter in the DPF.
My assumption is any kind of a tune for mileage would have to lean out the fuel mix which would boost the nitrogen oxide emissions, but decrease particulate matter. Is that correct? In which case that would also decrease the regen cycles because it isn't working as hard. Lean fuel mix and lower regen cycles would equate to bigger savings in fuel while not modifying the EPA-compliance hardware (DPF-delete).
If this is all good theory, how likely is it a dealer would void a warrenty if a tune was installed and removed before the vehicle was taken in? What tunes are available?
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 37,383
Likes: 1,867
From: Frederick, MD
I have the banks, average for most is 1-2 mpg gains and fewer regens. Banks is conservative, maintains all factory safe limits and will shut itself off if it detects something wrong with it self.
It is a DPF on tuner. It intercepts the information from the PCM and then modifys it.
Is it detectable? I have no idea.
I had my truck in for an ABS light last spring. I did take it off. I had then search for codes to ensure there was nothing pending.
No mention of a tuner upon picking up the truck. That is really all I can tell you.
It is a DPF on tuner. It intercepts the information from the PCM and then modifys it.
Is it detectable? I have no idea.
I had my truck in for an ABS light last spring. I did take it off. I had then search for codes to ensure there was nothing pending.
No mention of a tuner upon picking up the truck. That is really all I can tell you.
Junior User
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
This is a multi-sided set of questions. First, are there any good fuel mileage tunes for the 6.4L engine?
That said, all of them probably void the warrenty. For what reason? If a chip is used can it be pulled and not be detectable? Or will there always be a way to trace back to having a tune at any point in the engine/computer's life?
How much of a benefit can a tune offer on a 6.4L with DPF? As in NO DPF delete. Are we talking a couple mpg? 5mpg? 1/2mpg?
My guess is the only way to increase the fuel economy without anything "major" is to lean out the fuel mixture. This gets back in to how the 6.4L is supposed to be "clean" - make the fuel mix rich to decrease nitrogen oxide. The downside is it increases particulate emissions - hence the DPF. So its a double edged sward - you run the engine rich to begin with (more fuel than necessary) and then add even MORE fuel to the regen cycle to burn off the particulate matter in the DPF.
My assumption is any kind of a tune for mileage would have to lean out the fuel mix which would boost the nitrogen oxide emissions, but decrease particulate matter. Is that correct? In which case that would also decrease the regen cycles because it isn't working as hard. Lean fuel mix and lower regen cycles would equate to bigger savings in fuel while not modifying the EPA-compliance hardware (DPF-delete).
If this is all good theory, how likely is it a dealer would void a warrenty if a tune was installed and removed before the vehicle was taken in? What tunes are available?
That said, all of them probably void the warrenty. For what reason? If a chip is used can it be pulled and not be detectable? Or will there always be a way to trace back to having a tune at any point in the engine/computer's life?
How much of a benefit can a tune offer on a 6.4L with DPF? As in NO DPF delete. Are we talking a couple mpg? 5mpg? 1/2mpg?
My guess is the only way to increase the fuel economy without anything "major" is to lean out the fuel mixture. This gets back in to how the 6.4L is supposed to be "clean" - make the fuel mix rich to decrease nitrogen oxide. The downside is it increases particulate emissions - hence the DPF. So its a double edged sward - you run the engine rich to begin with (more fuel than necessary) and then add even MORE fuel to the regen cycle to burn off the particulate matter in the DPF.
My assumption is any kind of a tune for mileage would have to lean out the fuel mix which would boost the nitrogen oxide emissions, but decrease particulate matter. Is that correct? In which case that would also decrease the regen cycles because it isn't working as hard. Lean fuel mix and lower regen cycles would equate to bigger savings in fuel while not modifying the EPA-compliance hardware (DPF-delete).
If this is all good theory, how likely is it a dealer would void a warrenty if a tune was installed and removed before the vehicle was taken in? What tunes are available?
Spartan Diesel Technologies
Quote from Spartan:
Will your tuner void my dealer warranty?
Answer
Possibly, but not likely.
Lots of rumors surround the current situation as to if aftermarket tuning devices are detectable in the new 6.4L Powerstroke Diesels. For most devices on the market, the answer to that question is YES. Ford Motor Company has special algorithms in place within the factory computers to detectthe download of a program from a non-Ford programming device; which
triggers the diagnostic troublecode "P167F", defined as "Non-OEM rogramming detected." This code is only viewable with Ford dealer or Ford Engineering diagnostic equipment, and will not be read or cleared by any other tuning device or diagnostic code reader on the market. This code is also stored in multiple computer modules scattered about the vehicle, meaning that "clearing" or resetting the engine controller alone will not force the code to go away.
Other in-line devices (tuning devices that plug into the engine harness connections rather than being downloaded as a programmer) claim to be undetectable since there is no actual download of a program through the computer system. However, this is not true, as the factory computer(s) collect and store information from the engine in the form of "freeze frames". These freeze-frame data collections WILL show evidence of the use of any
in-line tuning device even after the product is removed from the trucks. And unlike previous model trucks upon which the computer can be "cleared" by the practice of removing/unhooking the battery cables, all information on the 6.4L vehicles is stored in "non-volatile" memory, meaning the information is stored permanently until overwritten. A traditional "reset" cannot be performed, meaning the evidence of use of a in-line device will be shown to any Ford dealer or Ford engineer for a very, very long time.
Our tuning devices use a proprietary process when saving the stock tune and downloading our custom tuning to "emulate" the presence of a Ford factory programming device. In doing so, the presence of the "P167F" diagnostic code is prevented. Likewise, when a vehicle is returned back to stock using our device, multiple computer modules are internally reset to prevent and delete other tell-tale evidence of aftermarket tuning. This gives our
Spartan Phalanx programming device the highest level of undetectablilty available on the market, helping to preserve your factory warranty and preventing warranty denial by Ford. As Ford truck owners ourselves, our crew members share the concern about preserving factory warranty and understand the stress involved when choosing an aftermarket device
in this respect. This is why we take every measure to protect our customers' confidentiality and spend tremendous development effort to do so.
