This could have been brought up before but I want it more info. Which engine would be better the 302 or 351w. I plan on driving to school at least once a week, have ok gas milage (at least 10mpg), spin tires easily, and be able to go relativly fast (be able to pass everything) and how much would it cost, if I did all the work that I can myself???

1970 Ford F100 Custom
302 3spd

 

You toss aside a small saga with one sentence.......

Anyway, Power and Mileage do not go hand in hand. However, you do have a 302 to start off with (+++'s), and a manual tranny. It all depends on how much you want to spend. Send back a dollar amount, and I can give you a few options, dependant on what you have.....

 

351 would be the optimum engine for a light duty p/u. The 302 has very little low end torque which you need in a truck. The 351 is very easy to swap over, bolt in and change the computer. However, you have to watch out for the mazda 5 speed if that is what you have. I have one and it's weak, won't like the 351's power very much but I'm eventually changing the tranny to a ZF from the F-250s and going to a built 351.

 

I would like to spend less than $2000 if possible but would be willing to go up to $2500

It is in a 1970 so I do not have to worry about computers or 5spd mazda's.


1970 Ford F100 Custom
302 3spd

 

Sorry, but you are not going to get tire blazing power out of a 302 for around 2000 bucks. My suggestion would be to look for a 70-71 lincoln(optimum), or a 73-78 lincoln with the 460(no 72's!!!), and take out the 460 and C6, and install it. you will need to do some custom fab work, with motor mounts( you will be able to use other truck pieces, I just can't remember what I used to do it, the truck I did was around 13-15 years ago. you will also need to get the driveshaft shortened if this is a short bed truck, or, if a long bed, get a driveshaft for a c6 tranny truck. exhaust will have to fabbed up, but you should be able to keep it under 2 grand, if you find the right car.....I am forgetting a few things, like radiator and such, but go to the 460 forum here and ask around for better answers if you are interested..............

 

Sorry, but you are not going to get tire blazing power out of a 302 for around 2000 bucks. My suggestion would be to look for a 70-71 lincoln(optimum), or a 73-78 lincoln with the 460(no 72's!!!), and take out the 460 and C6, and install it. you will need to do some custom fab work, with motor mounts( you will be able to use other truck pieces, I just can't remember what I used to do it, the truck I did was around 13-15 years ago. you will also need to get the driveshaft shortened if this is a short bed truck, or, if a long bed, get a driveshaft for a c6 tranny truck. exhaust will have to fabbed up, but you should be able to keep it under 2 grand, if you find the right car.....I am forgetting a few things, like radiator and such, but go to the 460 forum here and ask around for better answers if you are interested..............

 

I would put a 460 in put I would like to have a little bit of gas milage. Even if they were around the same everytime I would fill up my truck I would be cursing that 460. How would a 351c or a 351w. The 302 spins nice right now just not that much top end. Seems like I can walk faster than that truck. By the way it has low gearing. Not sure exactly what it has though

1970 Ford F100 Custom
302 3spd

 

then keep the 3 speed, and find a 70-71 351c(best compression ratio)2v. The motor mounts bolt up to the stock frame mounts, the tranny bolts up, and the flywheel even bolts on. Install a set of headers, electronic ignition, 4v intake, 750 holley vac secondary, and drop in roller rocker fulcrums, and a new clutch and pressure plate(and get the flywheel turned), should be fun to drive, and mileage should remain close(unless your foot is in it). Or, if your engine is in really good shape(leakdown test, compression test), buy a set of roush 180 heads($800), roller rockers($180-$200), a comp cams extreme energy cam XE274H($140-$160), high-energy lifters($65) a double roller timing chain(40-80), a pertronix ignition conversion(72.00), performer RPM intake,($160-180), edelbrock 600 cfm carb(may have to tune, around $230-250), Various gaskets and fluids($100), K&N air fliter 14x3 ($50?), Headers(get a good quality set)($130-$250), dual flowmasters, ($180), And a better perfomance clutch and pressure plate,($150-300). a blaster II coil, around 30-40 bucks, a set of ford motorsport 9mm wires, $40, motorcraft late model cap and rotor set$30, plus base, 10-15. These are just things off of the top of my head, and are based on whether or not your existing short block is any good, and if the 3 speed holds up....

 

Thanx for all of your help, you guys know your stuff



1970 Ford F100 Custom
302 3spd

 

I think this has gone over quite a bit. Just check the archives and there is a wealth of knowledge to be found. But, at 10mpg, you can have pretty much anything you want within reason of course. A 351 would suite quite nicely. As for the trans, I don't really believe all that bogus about them being weak. So far it has all be proven to be speculation. Somewere around the end of May I am going to find out for myself the results of 300 ponies on such a box. I honestly don't expect much problem.

 

at 10 mpg, I would think he could get a good running 460 to pull that...............just my .02...............

 

That is very true. Problem is he has a smallblock now, which presents alot of problems. Big Blocks=Big Bucks, Big weight, Expensive repairs if they ever occure. The added weight would require stronger suspension, new frame and motor mounds, new trans, etc, etc. List goes on and on and on.

 

All this is good stuff, however, from what I see from the mustang crowd I think a 302 can be built to make over 300 hp very easily/cheaply. I have a 302 now and thats what I'm sticking with. Go down to your local engine remanufacture and talk to them and tell them what you need. For example I'll be buying a long block but with no cam, timing chain, intake, valve covers etc (fdepending on the place long blocks come with different stuff....atleast around here thats how it is). The I will be throwing in one of summits cams and lifter kits for $90 or so, not the best but for a daily driven truck it will do. I'll go to PAW for a double roller timing chain set for around $40. Intake I'm looking at several but something to pull idle to 6,000 rpm (check summit there are a few for 302s for around $150-170) I may buy used to make it cheaper. Go with a 4bbl of your choice in the 600-700cfm range. You could buy a used one also and rebuild it. Go with MSD ignition or other of your choice, I'd buy new on this stuff. Headers, go to Summit and get Dynomax black jack headers, $99 buy 2 extra sets of flanges and have them welded onto the collector and the exhast to keep um from warping. Flowmasters are nice but the drone will kill you after a few days of it, it's too loud. Put them back as far possible as you can. Most people laugh about it being "too loud" but it's true, my buddy has an exhast shop and everytime I'm out there someone is back upset bbecause the flow masters are too loud but thats what they insisted on in the 1st place. Anyways back to what I was saying, after you get that find a cheap dress up kit and then you'll have chrome valve covers and all that good stuff. Get rid of any smog crap that you may have (I'd keep the PCV and EGR myself, but thats just me). So with a good remanucaftured long block (you cannot build one yourself for less money any more), a budget RV cam w/ double roller timing chain, a good 4bbl aluminum intake and carb, some quality ignition items, resonably priced headers and exhast, and a cheap chrome dress up kit you can have a 200+hp 302 for around 2 grand if you do work yourself and buy used when you can (no used cams and such though). Just remember it doesn't actually have to be "used" to be cheaper then new. check with your buddies and see what they have that never got used. Just because you have a 302 doesn't mean you have little power. The 302 is going to like to rev so like I said on the intake get one that goes from idle to 5,000-6,000 rpm. My 302 is all stock w/ all it's factory emissions and it's 2bbl carb...it's c4 has been rebuilt but thats all, so it's lasted it's 140,000 miles. I have highway gears (2.75) so I fly flat out but off the line I suck. Invest in a good tach and don't be afraid to wind it out (to an extent of course). Built the engine to be what it's good at...revs.... you may have to leave the line at a higher rpm to keep up with that big block but you'll out rev a big block anyday. The small engine mean you have to drive a bit different but you're not going to get into a rebuilt big block for 2 grand by the time you do everything else. If you decided to upgrade maybe look at a 351. I was wanting to do the same thing you were about a year ago but I started to look into it more and do some reading....any research you can do will help out alot. But as always, do what makes you happy. I'm not saying a 302 will beat a big block by any means. But if it's what you have and you're not looking to be the fastest on the block a 302 will work on a budget. Remember it's a truck and not a sports car... with too much power you're going to have to add some weight to the back and invest in some wider stickier tires. I like youre idea, let us know how it goes
Nick

 

Finally a guy that actually likes the 302. I won't be building this motor for a while yet, seeing as how my money has to go into more important things on my truck, but I like the Idea of only having to pay around $2000 to get around 200hp.
Thanx too all that have helped in my decision

 

Nick basically described everything that I had on my 302. I have since gone way overboard with everything, but you really don't have to spend big money to have a tuff little 302. I'll echo the suggestions before-get a 4bbl intake and an Edelbrock 600 cfm carb, that thing will get more than the fuel milage you asked for, and you won't ever have to mess with it. For an intake, Edelbrock makes the best, look for a Performer series, I have a Weiand Action Plus, it works nice too, but they're actually more expensive than the Edelbrock nowadays. Headers are a major improvement, but I'll suggest get dynomax headers, they're the same $89 price, and they're better quality than the Flow-Tech headers that I have now. When you put those headers in, make sure you put the passenger side header in the truck before you put the engine in, or it will never fit. MSD ignition is great upgrade, I'd go with at least a 6A box and Blaster 2 coil, but I have found that the Pro-Billet distributor was easily worth the $250, and I'm just talking about everyday driving. I have a 302-fired '77 F100 that I drive everyday, and I drive it back and forth to school in Charleston, SC from my home in Marietta, GA, without hesitation. Right now I have your 2.75 gears, don't change those without an overdrive trans, or you'll miss your ability to rock and roll on the highway. Also, don't waste your time with a K&N air filter either, no way that's worth $40, and surely not worth the damage they do to your engine. My last engine started out as a very mild rebuild, just like the parts we talked about above, and it was very responsive and quick, got good fuel milage, and had the same legendary reliability as any stock motor.

If you want to go for serious power, you're gonna have to add a better cam and heads, I've been there for the past year, and I love all the power I have now. You can have a 400-horse 302 that will get great fuel milage, breathes with it's own lungs, and drives everyday with no reliability issues, you just have to mix and match the right parts. I love 302's, and it will be much more economical for you to stick with one. I'm going to go looking through my catalogues to find the best cam for you, I'll get back with you later! TK