'90 F150 Idle issues
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 53
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From: Arkansas
'90 F150 Idle issues
I did a search & about the only thread that I saw that was close to my issues is this one: 90 F250 Idle Lobes/Stalls
Just to get this out of the way, '90 F150 2wd, 351w, E4oD, 3.08 peg leg, 31x10.5x15s (street on steer & mud in the rear). EGR, air pump, tab & tad (i think that what theyre called), fuel vapor 'noid thingy are either off the truck or disconnected.
Back before the holidays it would stumble a little while starting but I didnt really care to much cause it was an ever so often deal plus the other, bigger problems I have going on with it. For the 4th I pulled both my trucks under the carport while we went out of town. When I pulled the battery & put it back in (1 battery & 2 trucks) to pull it in the carport all ran fine & normal. It sat for about 5 days total before I went to start it & move it out. When I went to fire it up, it wouldnt so I rolled it out so I could get the grill going (cooking steaks during a storm).
Got to it a day or two later & the most I could get out of it was a very low idle (no tach so not sure on rpms). Then last Friday I was checking stuff to see if I could find the problem, I had it running & all of a sudden it bumped up to a normal idle. After that, as long as I dont shut it down, it run fine & runs out good going down the road.
I found the air temp sensor was loose. Pulled it out to look/check it & put it back in. Took the idle air motor off & cleaned it with card cleaner which got a lot of junk out of it. Turned the key to on & plugged it in & say that it moved. The next time I had it running at the normal idle & unplugged it & it died. I know Im still getting good spark, plenty of fuel at the rail & air. Have yet to check or replace the O2 sensor or pull a plug or two to check them.
Beside the idle problem at start up, it runs fine with its other problems (knock in the bottom end, front end going out, oil, water & tranny leaks). My plan was to tough it out while I get my '82 F250 repaired & waiting on the title. When its good & I dont have to worry if it is going to crap out on me I was going to park the 150 & strip it down & go through everything.
Forgot the mention I bought a code scanner friday night & ran it. Pulled 2 for emission stuff with the KOEO then pulled 65, 74, 77, 33, 44 in the KOER but I forgot about the brake pedal & full throttle parts of the test. And when I went to redo the test to include those the throttle cable took a crap on me which I now have replaced.
I did a movie show the low idle at start w/ CEL on & then the bump up to normal w/o the light but photobucket wont take it & I have to upload it to a friend's website. I would post it but it still has about 45 minutes to finish uploading. When I get up from my nap before work I will try to post it.
James
Just to get this out of the way, '90 F150 2wd, 351w, E4oD, 3.08 peg leg, 31x10.5x15s (street on steer & mud in the rear). EGR, air pump, tab & tad (i think that what theyre called), fuel vapor 'noid thingy are either off the truck or disconnected.
Back before the holidays it would stumble a little while starting but I didnt really care to much cause it was an ever so often deal plus the other, bigger problems I have going on with it. For the 4th I pulled both my trucks under the carport while we went out of town. When I pulled the battery & put it back in (1 battery & 2 trucks) to pull it in the carport all ran fine & normal. It sat for about 5 days total before I went to start it & move it out. When I went to fire it up, it wouldnt so I rolled it out so I could get the grill going (cooking steaks during a storm).
Got to it a day or two later & the most I could get out of it was a very low idle (no tach so not sure on rpms). Then last Friday I was checking stuff to see if I could find the problem, I had it running & all of a sudden it bumped up to a normal idle. After that, as long as I dont shut it down, it run fine & runs out good going down the road.
I found the air temp sensor was loose. Pulled it out to look/check it & put it back in. Took the idle air motor off & cleaned it with card cleaner which got a lot of junk out of it. Turned the key to on & plugged it in & say that it moved. The next time I had it running at the normal idle & unplugged it & it died. I know Im still getting good spark, plenty of fuel at the rail & air. Have yet to check or replace the O2 sensor or pull a plug or two to check them.
Beside the idle problem at start up, it runs fine with its other problems (knock in the bottom end, front end going out, oil, water & tranny leaks). My plan was to tough it out while I get my '82 F250 repaired & waiting on the title. When its good & I dont have to worry if it is going to crap out on me I was going to park the 150 & strip it down & go through everything.
Forgot the mention I bought a code scanner friday night & ran it. Pulled 2 for emission stuff with the KOEO then pulled 65, 74, 77, 33, 44 in the KOER but I forgot about the brake pedal & full throttle parts of the test. And when I went to redo the test to include those the throttle cable took a crap on me which I now have replaced.
I did a movie show the low idle at start w/ CEL on & then the bump up to normal w/o the light but photobucket wont take it & I have to upload it to a friend's website. I would post it but it still has about 45 minutes to finish uploading. When I get up from my nap before work I will try to post it.
James
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
None of the codes help to any great extent, you have a CM for the egr failing to open and the air system not functioning but neither should cause a problem at idle, provided the EGR valve is fully closed.
The slow idle speed could point to it being stuck partially open, just enough to cause a weak idle but not enough to actually stumble.
Check it for vac leaks (vac leaks tend to cause high idle speeds but check it anyway) check the cap, rotor, wires and plugs and base timing. Clean, adjust and or replace as necessary anything you find questionable. And if you do clean the throttle body, do not use carb cleaner.
You say it has plenty of fuel at the rail but how do you know that, did you use a gauge or just press the valve core pin to see what'd shoot out?
If you haven't check the fuel pressure with a gauge made to do so rent or borrow one and check it that way so its not a question mark.
Once your sure the basics are covered run the KOEO test again being sure to do as directed when directed to get a clean test result. If a problem still exists doing so might bring new information to light you're not getting now.
The slow idle speed could point to it being stuck partially open, just enough to cause a weak idle but not enough to actually stumble.
Check it for vac leaks (vac leaks tend to cause high idle speeds but check it anyway) check the cap, rotor, wires and plugs and base timing. Clean, adjust and or replace as necessary anything you find questionable. And if you do clean the throttle body, do not use carb cleaner.
You say it has plenty of fuel at the rail but how do you know that, did you use a gauge or just press the valve core pin to see what'd shoot out?
If you haven't check the fuel pressure with a gauge made to do so rent or borrow one and check it that way so its not a question mark.
Once your sure the basics are covered run the KOEO test again being sure to do as directed when directed to get a clean test result. If a problem still exists doing so might bring new information to light you're not getting now.
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2008
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From: Arkansas
Got the scanner out yesterday after I got home from work. I let it cool down for a while, I was f'ing tired, but was still warm around the thermostat housing.
KOEO
85 - Canister Purge Solenoid circuit failure.
33 - EGR valve opening not detected.
62 - Converter clutch error (E4OD).
67 - Neutral safety circuit failure.
KOER cool
12 - Cannot control RPM during ER Self-Test high RPM check.
21 - ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts.
44 - Thermactor Air Injection system inoperative (Right side).
33 - EGR valve opening not detected.
13 - Cannot control RPM during ER Self-Test low RPM check.
77 - System failed to recognize brief WOT during Dynamic Response Test (user error).
65 - Overdrive OFF switch was not cycled during KOER test (user error).
KOER hot
Ran 2 miles or just over fairly hard. Idled ~1minute shutdown for ~30seconds & ran test.
44 - Thermactor Air Injection system inoperative (Right side).
33 - EGR valve opening not detected.
77 - System failed to recognize brief WOT during Dynamic Response Test (user error).
74 - Brake On/Off switch not actuated during KOER test (user error).
65 - Overdrive OFF switch was not cycled during KOER test (user error).
RED codes are what I have disconnected or taken off.
Blue codes are my fault during the test.
#21, I assume its because I let the motor cool down before the test since it did not show up during the hot test.
#12, Not sure if this is my fault from messing up the WOT test again or because of the cool motor.
Im getting ready to head out there & hook the EGR back up if I can find that roll of vac. hose. I will pull it off & check to see if its stuck open or what ever also.
Here is the video from the other day. It links to a friends website into a gallery he gave me. Just look past my paintball & lawn mower stuff.
Click this image. My gallery will open in a new tab then click the big version of this image to watch it.
James
KOEO
85 - Canister Purge Solenoid circuit failure.
33 - EGR valve opening not detected.
62 - Converter clutch error (E4OD).
67 - Neutral safety circuit failure.
KOER cool
12 - Cannot control RPM during ER Self-Test high RPM check.
21 - ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts.
44 - Thermactor Air Injection system inoperative (Right side).
33 - EGR valve opening not detected.
13 - Cannot control RPM during ER Self-Test low RPM check.
77 - System failed to recognize brief WOT during Dynamic Response Test (user error).
65 - Overdrive OFF switch was not cycled during KOER test (user error).
KOER hot
Ran 2 miles or just over fairly hard. Idled ~1minute shutdown for ~30seconds & ran test.
44 - Thermactor Air Injection system inoperative (Right side).
33 - EGR valve opening not detected.
77 - System failed to recognize brief WOT during Dynamic Response Test (user error).
74 - Brake On/Off switch not actuated during KOER test (user error).
65 - Overdrive OFF switch was not cycled during KOER test (user error).
RED codes are what I have disconnected or taken off.
Blue codes are my fault during the test.
#21, I assume its because I let the motor cool down before the test since it did not show up during the hot test.
#12, Not sure if this is my fault from messing up the WOT test again or because of the cool motor.
Im getting ready to head out there & hook the EGR back up if I can find that roll of vac. hose. I will pull it off & check to see if its stuck open or what ever also.
Here is the video from the other day. It links to a friends website into a gallery he gave me. Just look past my paintball & lawn mower stuff.
Click this image. My gallery will open in a new tab then click the big version of this image to watch it.
James
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 53
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From: Arkansas
Pulled the EGR valve off. Lightly pushed the nipple on the exh. side to see if it was still movable, it is. Hooked a vac. line to it & sucked on it a bit (no vac. hand pump) & it moved. Put everything back on. Took vac. plug off the manifold & ran hose over to the EVR 'noid then back to the EGR valve. Started it up, did the normal low idle crap. Once it got up to a normal idle I pulled the hose off the egr valve & to the hose from the intake & hooked straight to the valve, stall. I watched the valve & saw it open up. Switched it all back & ran down the road. Did a KOEO test after about a minute after I shut it down. Came back with:
85 - Canister Purge Solenoid circuit failure.
34 - PFE or EVP circuit above the closed limit of 0.67 volts.
67 - Neutral safety circuit failure.
Fired it back up to warm it up a bit, shut it down, restarted & started KOER:
34 or 44 (I missed what I think was the first blink. These two were the only ones that showed so I guess all I got was a 44)
44 - Thermactor Air Injection system inoperative (Right side).
I read about that fella with the '90 F250 getting his going. Im going to go back out there & pull the neg off the battery for a bit.
James
Oh ya, Ive watched the views slowly go up but does anyone have anything to say?
85 - Canister Purge Solenoid circuit failure.
34 - PFE or EVP circuit above the closed limit of 0.67 volts.
67 - Neutral safety circuit failure.
Fired it back up to warm it up a bit, shut it down, restarted & started KOER:
34 or 44 (I missed what I think was the first blink. These two were the only ones that showed so I guess all I got was a 44)
44 - Thermactor Air Injection system inoperative (Right side).
I read about that fella with the '90 F250 getting his going. Im going to go back out there & pull the neg off the battery for a bit.
James
Oh ya, Ive watched the views slowly go up but does anyone have anything to say?
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Arkansas
This just dawned on me, the fuel pump doesnt run for a few seconds & shut off like it used to. Would that have anything to do with it?
Thinking about picking up a new O2 sensor & pressure tester for the fuel in the morning.
Thinking about picking up a new O2 sensor & pressure tester for the fuel in the morning.
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 53
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From: Arkansas
Well last night, about 1/2 way to work the CEL came one & stayed on the rest of the way. When I got to work & shut it down I restarted it & it fired up & idled just fine. Then on the way home, same thing. I would have pulled the battery cable when I came in but I wasnt feeling good at all & found a damn stray dog sleeping on the carport.
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 53
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From: Arkansas
Got back out there today to run the scanner again. Its been sitting pretty much the whole weekend up until now.
KOEO - Cold
85 - Canister Purge Solenoid circuit failure.
34 - PFE or EVP circuit above the closed limit of 0.67 volts.
62 - Converter clutch error (E4OD).
67 - Neutral safety circuit failure.
69 - 3 - 4 shift error.
KOER - cold
44 - Thermactor Air Injection system inoperative (Right side).
21 - ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts.
KOEO - hot
85 - Canister Purge Solenoid circuit failure.
34 - PFE or EVP circuit above the closed limit of 0.67 volts.
62 - Converter clutch error (E4OD).
67 - Neutral safety circuit failure.
69 - 3 - 4 shift error.
KOER - hot
44 - Thermactor Air Injection system inoperative (Right side).
#85, 44 are my fault because stuff is either unhooked or taken off the truck all together.
Im going to go back out there & clear the codes & see if that helps.
KOEO - Cold
85 - Canister Purge Solenoid circuit failure.
34 - PFE or EVP circuit above the closed limit of 0.67 volts.
62 - Converter clutch error (E4OD).
67 - Neutral safety circuit failure.
69 - 3 - 4 shift error.
KOER - cold
44 - Thermactor Air Injection system inoperative (Right side).
21 - ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts.
KOEO - hot
85 - Canister Purge Solenoid circuit failure.
34 - PFE or EVP circuit above the closed limit of 0.67 volts.
62 - Converter clutch error (E4OD).
67 - Neutral safety circuit failure.
69 - 3 - 4 shift error.
KOER - hot
44 - Thermactor Air Injection system inoperative (Right side).
#85, 44 are my fault because stuff is either unhooked or taken off the truck all together.
Im going to go back out there & clear the codes & see if that helps.
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