Confused on water temp sensor 400 - help please !
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 227
Likes: 1
Confused on water temp sensor 400 - help please !
Hi,
I need a new water temp sensor for my 400 and became confused about the thread size. The embossing on the hexagon says it´s 5/8" but in fact it´s kind of a 21/32" or 83/128".
This is approximate, it`s a conversion from metric because my truck is in germany where we use metric dimensions. I went to VDO but got 2 mismatching sensors with 5/8" 18 NPT. The thread pitch is ok but the diameter is a bit to small.
I tried some US aftermarket (Summit, Jegs) but only found 3/8" for a 400.
The sensors fits at the front of the block on the left beside the water pump.
The threaded hole looks not been manipulated or helicoiled.
I`m confused .... can anybody help me out, please ?
I need a new water temp sensor for my 400 and became confused about the thread size. The embossing on the hexagon says it´s 5/8" but in fact it´s kind of a 21/32" or 83/128".
This is approximate, it`s a conversion from metric because my truck is in germany where we use metric dimensions. I went to VDO but got 2 mismatching sensors with 5/8" 18 NPT. The thread pitch is ok but the diameter is a bit to small.
I tried some US aftermarket (Summit, Jegs) but only found 3/8" for a 400.
The sensors fits at the front of the block on the left beside the water pump.
The threaded hole looks not been manipulated or helicoiled.
I`m confused .... can anybody help me out, please ?
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
From: Southern NM
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # TS58.That sender is 3/8x18 NPT.By all accounts it looks to be the correct replacement.Hope that helps. Went back to read original post.Never heard of 5/8 NPT.If the 3/8 sender is too small,it may require a 1/2" npt x 3/8"npt reducing bushing.Let us know what you get worked out.Have since found out that British pipe comes in a 5/8 thread.
Last edited by maskedman; Jul 8, 2010 at 08:41 PM. Reason: added information
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 227
Likes: 1
Yes, 3/8" #TS58 is what I found, too ...
A 1/2" to 3/8" reducer will definately not fit, the threaded hole in the block
is slightly bigger than 5/8". By the way the position of the hole is not on the left side, it´s on the right side of the water pump (seen from the driver´s position) .... seems this story gets me more and more confused.
Is this maybe NOT the originally position of the water temp sensor and there is a mount somewhere else ?
A 1/2" to 3/8" reducer will definately not fit, the threaded hole in the block
is slightly bigger than 5/8". By the way the position of the hole is not on the left side, it´s on the right side of the water pump (seen from the driver´s position) .... seems this story gets me more and more confused.
Is this maybe NOT the originally position of the water temp sensor and there is a mount somewhere else ?
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
From: Southern NM
Can you send a picture of what you are dealing with?The sender is usually mounted in the block water jacket.The only connection made to the water pump on that side,is usually the heater core return line.My sender is located in the front of the timing case casting,and is 3/8 diameter.The next step up is 3/4 npt.Do you have a tap set?Can you measure the diameter of the old sender unit with a micrometer or caliper?Do you have access to a thread pitch gauge?Let us know what you discover with closer measurements.May have found another consideration for you to look at since you are in Europe.http://www.ring-plug-thread-gages.co...data.html.This chart shows British Standard Pipe Thread sizes,and more than a few are different from ours in size and pitch.One other thing to check on.Are you sure that the hole for the fitting is pipe thread,and not 5/8 UNF thread?
Last edited by maskedman; Jul 9, 2010 at 12:38 PM. Reason: added information
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 227
Likes: 1
OK,
I followed your link but got even more confused ...
In this reference chart is
1" = 33,294 mm and
3/8" = 16,662 mm (!)
For me and my limited mind this is not logical or mathematical. For all I know 1 inch or zoll is 25,4 mm and
therefore 3/8" is 9,53 mm and 5/8" is 15,87 mm.
The two mismatching VDO sensors are named 5/8" and are 15,87 mm.
Is it possible that inch measurements in increasing order are following a different math ? Maybe only in the US ?
Yes I can do some pics but I´ve just learned I cannot post them from my harddrive here but have to import them from another source (never did pics here before). Give me some time, please ....
And yes, following your better describtion the location of my sensor is at the front of the timing chain casting - at least one conformity .... :-)
On the other hand this 16,662 mm for 3/8" nearly matches my own measurement of 16,5 mm of the sensor.
Following this logic a 3/8" sensor should fit but I don´t wanna have a third sensor on stock that won´t fit.
Can you confirm my thoughts about my conversion inch/mm ?
Thank you for being so helpful, maskedman !
I followed your link but got even more confused ...
In this reference chart is
1" = 33,294 mm and
3/8" = 16,662 mm (!)
For me and my limited mind this is not logical or mathematical. For all I know 1 inch or zoll is 25,4 mm and
therefore 3/8" is 9,53 mm and 5/8" is 15,87 mm.
The two mismatching VDO sensors are named 5/8" and are 15,87 mm.
Is it possible that inch measurements in increasing order are following a different math ? Maybe only in the US ?
Yes I can do some pics but I´ve just learned I cannot post them from my harddrive here but have to import them from another source (never did pics here before). Give me some time, please ....
And yes, following your better describtion the location of my sensor is at the front of the timing chain casting - at least one conformity .... :-)
On the other hand this 16,662 mm for 3/8" nearly matches my own measurement of 16,5 mm of the sensor.
Following this logic a 3/8" sensor should fit but I don´t wanna have a third sensor on stock that won´t fit.
Can you confirm my thoughts about my conversion inch/mm ?
Thank you for being so helpful, maskedman !
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 88,826
Likes: 783
From: Simi Valley, CA
I need a new water temp sensor for my 400 and became confused about the thread size. The embossing on the hexagon says it´s 5/8" but in fact it´s kind of a 21/32" or 83/128".
This is approximate, it`s a conversion from metric because my truck is in germany where we use metric dimensions. I went to VDO but got 2 mismatching sensors with 5/8" 18 NPT. The thread pitch is ok but the diameter is a bit to small.
I tried some US aftermarket (Summit, Jegs) but only found 3/8" for a 400.
The sensors fits at the front of the block on the left beside the water pump.
The threaded hole looks not been manipulated or helicoiled.
This is approximate, it`s a conversion from metric because my truck is in germany where we use metric dimensions. I went to VDO but got 2 mismatching sensors with 5/8" 18 NPT. The thread pitch is ok but the diameter is a bit to small.
I tried some US aftermarket (Summit, Jegs) but only found 3/8" for a 400.
The sensors fits at the front of the block on the left beside the water pump.
The threaded hole looks not been manipulated or helicoiled.
The same one was used in myriad Passenger Car, F100/350, Bronco & Econoline applications from 1970 thru 1997 with many I-4, I-6 & V8 engines, so...there is no such thing as a specific 400 sensor.
F1SZ10884A (replaced DOWY10884A) .. Water Temperature Sending Unit aka sensor (Motorcraft SW2328) / Available from Ford.
MSRP: $19.38 // FTE sponsor PARTSGUYED.COM price: $10.46.
Some people confuse the water temperature sending unit with the following:
1973 and newer vehicles have two or three vacuum delay valves that thread into and are located at the front of the engine. The valves are related to emissions equipment.
One type was used for distributor vacuum control, another for the EGR valve, still another as a coolant temperature sensor, but this has nothing to do with the dash gauge.
These valves could have two, three or four ports where the vacuum hoses attach. Is one or more of these valves what you are asking about?
If so, on the opposite side of the ports is an FoMoCo ID number, like this...for example: D7OE-8A564-A2A. Some of these valves also have colored dye markers on them,
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
Likes: 92
From: Denver Metro Area, CO
The water temperature sender, like most devices of this nature, uses a tapered threaded
portion, what is known as a Pipe Thread. This means the outermost portion will necessarily
be smaller than the hole's opening at first but, because the device is tapered, everything
begins to fit nicely as it's tightened down.
The water temperature sender fits into the front of the block (and not into the water pump)
and looks like so:
portion, what is known as a Pipe Thread. This means the outermost portion will necessarily
be smaller than the hole's opening at first but, because the device is tapered, everything
begins to fit nicely as it's tightened down.
The water temperature sender fits into the front of the block (and not into the water pump)
and looks like so:
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Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 227
Likes: 1
@ Bill :
well I just mistyped it... I noticed my mistake after posting and hoped nobody will draw a false conclusion from this.
Yes of course it´s just one temperature sender and thank you for the part info, Bill.
I´ve added two pics which shows the sender in it´s mounting position and a close up with a millimeter rule. You can even see the 5 8 letters on the hexagon - well a bit out of focus .....
@ ctubutis :
Your pic shows exactly the specification of my sender.
But - what is the size of the thread ? Is it 3/8" ?
Basing on what metric number for 1 inch ? THIS is my problem, I already have 2 mismatching sender in 5/8" basing on 25,4 mm for 1 inch.
If this describtion refers to the pic from you, then I´ve found the right part.
well I just mistyped it... I noticed my mistake after posting and hoped nobody will draw a false conclusion from this.
Yes of course it´s just one temperature sender and thank you for the part info, Bill.
I´ve added two pics which shows the sender in it´s mounting position and a close up with a millimeter rule. You can even see the 5 8 letters on the hexagon - well a bit out of focus .....
@ ctubutis :
Your pic shows exactly the specification of my sender.
But - what is the size of the thread ? Is it 3/8" ?
Basing on what metric number for 1 inch ? THIS is my problem, I already have 2 mismatching sender in 5/8" basing on 25,4 mm for 1 inch.
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # TS58.That sender is 3/8x18 NPT.
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Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 227
Likes: 1
Hey, thank you - I´ve done my very best ....
I hope it´s an easy fix, I will order this sender now from a dealer here in Germany and let´s see what comes. I´ll let you know ....
... but I still do not understand that 3/8" can be 16,662 mm and 5/8" can be 15,875. Is this maybe one of these stories where everybody calls a thing by a name and in fact the thing has a different name ?
Thanks all for help !
I hope it´s an easy fix, I will order this sender now from a dealer here in Germany and let´s see what comes. I´ll let you know ....
... but I still do not understand that 3/8" can be 16,662 mm and 5/8" can be 15,875. Is this maybe one of these stories where everybody calls a thing by a name and in fact the thing has a different name ?
Thanks all for help !
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
From: Southern NM
Here is how it works out.Divide 3 into8,equals .375.Multiply that by 25.4,that equals 9.52 mm.5/8 comes out to .625x25.4,and that is 15.87mm.To get U.S. equivilant decimal sizes,multiply mmx.0394.Let us know how your fix works out.To add to this:3/8 ntp has an outer diameter of 0.675,and works out to 17.14mm.Outside diameter of 1/2 ntp is 0.840,and works out to 21.34mm.
Last edited by maskedman; Jul 11, 2010 at 10:22 PM. Reason: added information
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 227
Likes: 1
OK, seems the fog lifts a bit ...
Maskedman, thanks a lot for some explanation.
I haven`t had my focus on the addition NTP for the thread. Did some research and found out the numbers for NPT threads base on the inner diameter not the outer diameter, and therefore 1" in NPT is 33,294 mm and not 25,4 mm.
And the own math for NPT must be the reason why 3,8" is 16,662 mm although this should be nearly 1/2".
Anyway, don´t wanna make this story any longer. I´ll let you know when I`ve got the new sender.
Maskedman, thanks a lot for some explanation.
I haven`t had my focus on the addition NTP for the thread. Did some research and found out the numbers for NPT threads base on the inner diameter not the outer diameter, and therefore 1" in NPT is 33,294 mm and not 25,4 mm.
And the own math for NPT must be the reason why 3,8" is 16,662 mm although this should be nearly 1/2".
Anyway, don´t wanna make this story any longer. I´ll let you know when I`ve got the new sender.
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