Alternator Problems
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
Thanks Steve.
I think I mean something different ---
I mean an "outboard" mounting.
It is an entire box that takes the electronics far away from the heat of the alternator area --- and let you mount it in a cool place where it can also get cool air.
Here is what I mean:
Quicktifier Remote Rectifier HHO High Output Alternator High Voltage
How The Quicktifier 210™ and Quicktifier 420™ Heavy Duty Dual/Remote Bridge Rectifier Systems Work
Alternators make AC (alternating) current using a bridge rectifier with diodes to convert that AC current into DC (direct) current for use by the vehicle's electrical system. When your alternator's voltage regulator senses the need for electricity the regulator tells the alternator to start making electrical power. The alternator is then turned on and making electricity it taking power from the engine to generate the electrical power in the alternator, the more electrical power an alternator makes the more it costs.
Here's where and how you loose some electrical power from your alternator. When your alternator is making AC power, which you pay for, and your bridge rectifier cannot transfer that AC power to DC it gets rid of it in the form of heat. You pay for generating power, then some of it gets wasted in the form of heat, because the alternator's internal rectifier is not efficient enough to transfer all the AC power, which you paid for, into DC power. To top it off, the more demand you put on your alternator the internal bridge rectifier becomes less efficient and more power is wasted.
So if you are powering an HHO system or some other continuous demand system you are paying even more. The Quicktifier 210™ and Quicktifier 420™ help recover that wasted power by tapping into the alternator stator leads where the AC power is generated. By taping into these AC lines before they go into the alternators internal bridge rectifier the external rectifier is offering a more efficient pathway out of the alternator in transferring the AC power generated into DC power. The increased throughput of higher amperage rated diodes, larger wires and a high volume fan to keep the remote rectifier cool work together to create greater efficiency and less wasted power.
The Quicktifier 210™'s rectifier is rated at 210 amperes, the Quicktifier 420™'s is rated at 420 amperes, much higher than any alternators internal bridge rectifier. Because of the recovery of formerly wasted power you can power your system, whether it's your stereo, HHO System, Emergency vehicle, or other high demand system for less money and less down time. The Quicktifier-210™ or 420 will make electrical systems work better and your alternator's bridge rectifier last longer.
Alternators make AC (alternating) current using a bridge rectifier with diodes to convert that AC current into DC (direct) current for use by the vehicle's electrical system. When your alternator's voltage regulator senses the need for electricity the regulator tells the alternator to start making electrical power. The alternator is then turned on and making electricity it taking power from the engine to generate the electrical power in the alternator, the more electrical power an alternator makes the more it costs.
Here's where and how you loose some electrical power from your alternator. When your alternator is making AC power, which you pay for, and your bridge rectifier cannot transfer that AC power to DC it gets rid of it in the form of heat. You pay for generating power, then some of it gets wasted in the form of heat, because the alternator's internal rectifier is not efficient enough to transfer all the AC power, which you paid for, into DC power. To top it off, the more demand you put on your alternator the internal bridge rectifier becomes less efficient and more power is wasted.
So if you are powering an HHO system or some other continuous demand system you are paying even more. The Quicktifier 210™ and Quicktifier 420™ help recover that wasted power by tapping into the alternator stator leads where the AC power is generated. By taping into these AC lines before they go into the alternators internal bridge rectifier the external rectifier is offering a more efficient pathway out of the alternator in transferring the AC power generated into DC power. The increased throughput of higher amperage rated diodes, larger wires and a high volume fan to keep the remote rectifier cool work together to create greater efficiency and less wasted power.
The Quicktifier 210™'s rectifier is rated at 210 amperes, the Quicktifier 420™'s is rated at 420 amperes, much higher than any alternators internal bridge rectifier. Because of the recovery of formerly wasted power you can power your system, whether it's your stereo, HHO System, Emergency vehicle, or other high demand system for less money and less down time. The Quicktifier-210™ or 420 will make electrical systems work better and your alternator's bridge rectifier last longer.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
Disclaimer:
I have not personally tested these products discussed below, nor subject them to rigorous peer review.
I am bringing this to the community's attention with the caveat that all claims need to be independently, scientifically verified by laboratory tests.
Having said that, I believe the alternators discussed below, at least on paper, offer an alternative to DC Power's very high priced products.
Please note that whatever you buy, a reasonably good matching of the power load of your vehicle with the alternator is ESSENTIAL.
Furthermore, anything above 140amp output require upgraded wiring and fuses.
Therefore, careful selection of the rated output, duty cycle, and so in is essential.
If you added 1kw of load to your stock vehicle (e.g. stereo, etc.) you cannot expect anything beside a specialized custom fitted electrical system to power it.
That said,
6G Series Ford Power Stroke Diesel Type Small Case to Large Case Upgrade
For a stock vehicle, no exceptional loads, a Heavy Duty 8253M that list for $239 + less than $20 shipping is the minimum I would start with.
It is rated for 140A.
Not a lot --- but adequate if you have nothing else but stock accessories.
If you are in a very demanding (hot) climate, get the external rectifier option.
Note: The difference between the Standard Duty and Heavy Duty alternators listed below is in the amperage rating of the diodes in the bridge rectifier. Alternators make AC current, then use a Bridge Rectifier with diodes in it to convert the AC current to DC current for use by the vehicles electrical system.
The Rectifier is the #1 component to fail in high power demand situations. The standard duty rectifier uses 55 amp diodes, the heavy duty rectifier uses 70 amp diodes, in a solid copper heat sink for better heat & electrical conductivity plus a larger copper plated 8mm battery post that is silver soldered into the copper heat sink. This is the best high amperage bridge rectifier on the market.
I have not personally tested these products discussed below, nor subject them to rigorous peer review.
I am bringing this to the community's attention with the caveat that all claims need to be independently, scientifically verified by laboratory tests.
Having said that, I believe the alternators discussed below, at least on paper, offer an alternative to DC Power's very high priced products.
Please note that whatever you buy, a reasonably good matching of the power load of your vehicle with the alternator is ESSENTIAL.
Furthermore, anything above 140amp output require upgraded wiring and fuses.
Therefore, careful selection of the rated output, duty cycle, and so in is essential.
If you added 1kw of load to your stock vehicle (e.g. stereo, etc.) you cannot expect anything beside a specialized custom fitted electrical system to power it.
That said,
6G Series Ford Power Stroke Diesel Type Small Case to Large Case Upgrade
For a stock vehicle, no exceptional loads, a Heavy Duty 8253M that list for $239 + less than $20 shipping is the minimum I would start with.
It is rated for 140A.
Not a lot --- but adequate if you have nothing else but stock accessories.
If you are in a very demanding (hot) climate, get the external rectifier option.
Quick Start now gives you a third choice with our large case 6G alternator upgrade that bolts directly into your existing 110 amp small case bracket. You can't get this large case option from you local auto parts store or Ford Dealer because Ford Motor Company did not offer the large case alternator for the Ford 7.3L or 6.0 PowerStroke Diesel series truck.
With the large case alternator you will see substantial improvement in idle or low speed charging power output plus the large case alternator is much more reliable at higher outputs compared to the small case unit.
So if you need more charging power or your alternator is getting old and tired why not upgrade to the superior large case 6G series alternator.
We have the 6G large case alternator in several amperages and duty ratings. plus, our alternators are brand new and incorporate many original equipment Ford Motorcraft alternator components when possible.
With the large case alternator you will see substantial improvement in idle or low speed charging power output plus the large case alternator is much more reliable at higher outputs compared to the small case unit.
So if you need more charging power or your alternator is getting old and tired why not upgrade to the superior large case 6G series alternator.
We have the 6G large case alternator in several amperages and duty ratings. plus, our alternators are brand new and incorporate many original equipment Ford Motorcraft alternator components when possible.
Note: The difference between the Standard Duty and Heavy Duty alternators listed below is in the amperage rating of the diodes in the bridge rectifier. Alternators make AC current, then use a Bridge Rectifier with diodes in it to convert the AC current to DC current for use by the vehicles electrical system.
The Rectifier is the #1 component to fail in high power demand situations. The standard duty rectifier uses 55 amp diodes, the heavy duty rectifier uses 70 amp diodes, in a solid copper heat sink for better heat & electrical conductivity plus a larger copper plated 8mm battery post that is silver soldered into the copper heat sink. This is the best high amperage bridge rectifier on the market.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
Rectifiers
DC Power vs. QuickstartAlternator:
Here is a comparable DC Power (bottom of line) vs. the Quickstart:
DC Power $299
2003-2007 Ford F250/F350/F450 6.0L Powerstroke TAD 170 Amp OEM series alternator
https://www.dcpowerinc.com/alternato...d-170-oem.html
Quickstart 8253M HD140 Amp 6G Series Heavy Duty Power Stroke Alternator
For the same price, this can be had with the external $200 rectifier:
$299
http://store.alternatorparts.com/6g-...lternator.aspx
However, Quickstart did not have the specs sheets online --- as DC Power did.
IMHO, there is not enough evidence to favor one over the other without actual testing.
But, I have to say, 70amp diodes vs. 55amp (in the low end DC Power), and external/internal dual rectifier tends to sell me.
So --- I leave it to all of you to start running tests on these products.
Here is a comparable DC Power (bottom of line) vs. the Quickstart:
DC Power $299
2003-2007 Ford F250/F350/F450 6.0L Powerstroke TAD 170 Amp OEM series alternator
<table class="data-table" id="product-attribute-specs-table" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="first odd"><td class="label">Mounting Type</td> <td class="data last">Direct fit to OEM Mounting</td> </tr> <tr class="even"> <td class="label">Output Voltage</td> <td class="data last">14.8</td> </tr> <tr class="odd"> <td class="label">Idle Amperage</td> <td class="data last">110</td> </tr> <tr class="even"> <td class="label">Hot Idle Amperage @ 200ºF</td> <td class="data last">100</td> </tr> <tr class="odd"> <td class="label">Max Amperage</td> <td class="data last">170</td> </tr> <tr class="even"> <td class="label">Hot Max Amperage @ 200ºF</td> <td class="data last">150</td> </tr> <tr class="odd"> <td class="label">Positive output stud</td> <td class="data last">8MMx1.25 Copper </td> </tr> <tr class="even"> <td class="label">Voltage Regulator Temperature Compensation</td> <td class="data last">Yes</td> </tr> <tr class="odd"> <td class="label">Rectifier</td> <td class="data last">6 50 amp press fit diodes</td> </tr> <tr class="even"> <td class="label">Pulley</td> <td class="data last">Custom machined aluminum alloy 7K</td> </tr> <tr class="odd"> <td class="label">PCM Friendly</td> <td class="data last">Yes - Adapter Harness Included</td> </tr> <tr class="last even"> <td class="label">Warranty Period</td> <td class="data last">2 Year Standard Replacement</td></tr></tbody></table>
Quickstart 8253M HD140 Amp 6G Series Heavy Duty Power Stroke Alternator
For the same price, this can be had with the external $200 rectifier:
$299
http://store.alternatorparts.com/6g-...lternator.aspx
However, Quickstart did not have the specs sheets online --- as DC Power did.
IMHO, there is not enough evidence to favor one over the other without actual testing.
But, I have to say, 70amp diodes vs. 55amp (in the low end DC Power), and external/internal dual rectifier tends to sell me.
So --- I leave it to all of you to start running tests on these products.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
Here is a guy who seem to really know his alternators:
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...12/#post149267
heavy duty alternator? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
I've got a bit experience with alternator stuff. Just finishing a heavy-duty alternator install. Hang in there, this might get kinda long.
If the amb. package is aftermarket as you mentioned, it probably has one of three different alternators.
1. Mitsubishi 215-Amp dual-rectifier, brushless
Factory heavy-duty, Ford E & F series 7.3L Vans & Pickups and some commercial cutaway chassis under EMV and shuttle buses.
Reference part #'s A8TU0091, F5UU-10300-CA, GL-360, Lester 12075
Regulator: OE 33-Amp Field Current device, aftermarket reg w/60-Amp Field Current device, part #IM840 from dealers for www.transpo.de. Transpo regulators are all over US, just find a auto electric shop and ask for part # above. Same for diodes.
This alt. is pretty hard to disassemble. No service documentation available...I looked for the longest time. Way expensive to get serviced.
Romaine Electric in Seattle charges $450-500, Seattle Fire and City Light trucks have a few repaired each month.
Cheap in wrecking yards, search Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market.
2. Penntex Industries, dual-rectifier, brushless
PX-220P-5 1988-92 201 amps
PX-220T-5 1992-94 208 amps
PX-520T 95-03 208 amps
PX-627T 95-03 280 amps
PX-635T 95-03 350 amps
All documentation on parts and servicing is at PennTex Industries, Inc.. Easy to service with info from their website.
3. Leece-Neville, brushed models
Case for 7.3L
A00190745 1988-1998 165 Amps
A00190762 1992-1998 165 Amps
A00190770 1992-1998 165 Amps
Ford E/F trucks in 80's and early 90's. Very popular in marine world. Some documentation available at Prestolite Electric Inc - Global Home.
The latter two companies make very tough alternators and LN's can be externally regulated without much modification, penntex are all external regulated. Unfortunately, these alternators are quite expensive. So if you already have one great...otherwise, they go for $500+ new...or start a hunt on evilbay.
I'm using a Penntex PX-520T with an 3-stage external regulator to charge 4 trojan T105 deep-cycle batteries (400ah) plus the 2 stock batteries. This unit outputs 106 amps at idle. The two batt banks are isolated via solenoid controlled by the external regulator. Alternator sizing is done with the 25% rule...total amp-hours of all battery banks multipled by .25 = alternator amp output. Also, remember to use hot output ratings as most OEM alternators are rated cold (advertised output)...3-stage regulators can smoke them, easy!
If the amb. package is aftermarket as you mentioned, it probably has one of three different alternators.
1. Mitsubishi 215-Amp dual-rectifier, brushless
Factory heavy-duty, Ford E & F series 7.3L Vans & Pickups and some commercial cutaway chassis under EMV and shuttle buses.
Reference part #'s A8TU0091, F5UU-10300-CA, GL-360, Lester 12075
Regulator: OE 33-Amp Field Current device, aftermarket reg w/60-Amp Field Current device, part #IM840 from dealers for www.transpo.de. Transpo regulators are all over US, just find a auto electric shop and ask for part # above. Same for diodes.
This alt. is pretty hard to disassemble. No service documentation available...I looked for the longest time. Way expensive to get serviced.
Romaine Electric in Seattle charges $450-500, Seattle Fire and City Light trucks have a few repaired each month.
Cheap in wrecking yards, search Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market.
2. Penntex Industries, dual-rectifier, brushless
PX-220P-5 1988-92 201 amps
PX-220T-5 1992-94 208 amps
PX-520T 95-03 208 amps
PX-627T 95-03 280 amps
PX-635T 95-03 350 amps
All documentation on parts and servicing is at PennTex Industries, Inc.. Easy to service with info from their website.
3. Leece-Neville, brushed models
Case for 7.3L
A00190745 1988-1998 165 Amps
A00190762 1992-1998 165 Amps
A00190770 1992-1998 165 Amps
Ford E/F trucks in 80's and early 90's. Very popular in marine world. Some documentation available at Prestolite Electric Inc - Global Home.
The latter two companies make very tough alternators and LN's can be externally regulated without much modification, penntex are all external regulated. Unfortunately, these alternators are quite expensive. So if you already have one great...otherwise, they go for $500+ new...or start a hunt on evilbay.
I'm using a Penntex PX-520T with an 3-stage external regulator to charge 4 trojan T105 deep-cycle batteries (400ah) plus the 2 stock batteries. This unit outputs 106 amps at idle. The two batt banks are isolated via solenoid controlled by the external regulator. Alternator sizing is done with the 25% rule...total amp-hours of all battery banks multipled by .25 = alternator amp output. Also, remember to use hot output ratings as most OEM alternators are rated cold (advertised output)...3-stage regulators can smoke them, easy!
heavy duty alternator? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
This is what a real Bus grade 230A alternator looks like:
PX-5 Series
Note the rating... 160A at 3,000rpm HOT.... Maxes out at 190A HOT --- but cold is only slightly more 230A.
But it can put out this power at somewhere around 80% or higher duty cycle... all day... all nite...
PX-5 Series
PX-520 Series (230 Amps) Purpose-Built REAL Heavy-Duty Charging Systems
PX-5RD-230 amp (Ford) PX-5TD-230 amp (Ford) PX-5GD-230 amp (Chevy/GMC)
Complete Kit: PX-520RD Complete Kit: PX-520TD Complete Kit: PX-520GD
(Complete kit consists of alternator w/pulley, external voltage regulator, and harness)
Note: The PX-5 200-amp alternator was superseded by the PX-5 230-amp alternator. Click here for more information.
Contact Us
For additional PX-5TD ordering information CLICK HERE
For a brochure including other PX-5 models CLICK HERE
To see our Application Guide CLICK HERE For 2009-up Applications CLICK HERE
To see the PX-525 250 Amp Series CLICK HERE
For a comparison of the 230 amp and 250 amp PX-5 models CLICK HERE
PX-4000 Voltage Regulator
230/190 Amps
Model PX-520 Tested and Proven
Rotor RPM
Amps @ 13.5 volts
COLD (SAE)
HOT (200°F)
1800 110 90
2000 130 110
2250 155 130
2500 170 140
2750 185 155
3000 195 160
3500 210 175
4000 215 180
4500 225 185
5000 230 190
Special Features:
*
Dual 5/16" positive output posts.
*
Heavy duty hand wound high output stator.
*
Heavy duty dual plane balanced rotor.
*
Heavy duty long life brushes.
*
Heat sinks designed for efficient cooling.
*
Heavy duty bearings with high temperature seals and grease.
*
Eighteen (18) press fit 60 amp diodes.
*
Specially designed heavy duty regulator that produces higher ratings: runs cooler than current industry standards.
*
Regulator has ground fault and high voltage protection.
*
GXL wire is standard in all harnesses.
*
Weight: approximately 25 lbs.
Applications:
*
Specifically designed and proven to perform in high heat environments.
*
Buses and all other vehicles that require high amperage output.
*
See application guide or contact PennTex for availability of specific application.
Options:
*
PX-5RD-230 amp (Ford) PX-5TD-230 amp (Ford) PX-5GD-230 amp (Chevy/GMC)
Complete Kit: PX-520RD Complete Kit: PX-520TD Complete Kit: PX-520GD
(Complete kit consists of alternator w/pulley, external voltage regulator, and harness)
Note: The PX-5 200-amp alternator was superseded by the PX-5 230-amp alternator. Click here for more information.
Contact Us
For additional PX-5TD ordering information CLICK HERE
For a brochure including other PX-5 models CLICK HERE
To see our Application Guide CLICK HERE For 2009-up Applications CLICK HERE
To see the PX-525 250 Amp Series CLICK HERE
For a comparison of the 230 amp and 250 amp PX-5 models CLICK HERE
PX-4000 Voltage Regulator
230/190 Amps
Model PX-520 Tested and Proven
Rotor RPM
Amps @ 13.5 volts
COLD (SAE)
HOT (200°F)
1800 110 90
2000 130 110
2250 155 130
2500 170 140
2750 185 155
3000 195 160
3500 210 175
4000 215 180
4500 225 185
5000 230 190
Special Features:
*
Dual 5/16" positive output posts.
*
Heavy duty hand wound high output stator.
*
Heavy duty dual plane balanced rotor.
*
Heavy duty long life brushes.
*
Heat sinks designed for efficient cooling.
*
Heavy duty bearings with high temperature seals and grease.
*
Eighteen (18) press fit 60 amp diodes.
*
Specially designed heavy duty regulator that produces higher ratings: runs cooler than current industry standards.
*
Regulator has ground fault and high voltage protection.
*
GXL wire is standard in all harnesses.
*
Weight: approximately 25 lbs.
Applications:
*
Specifically designed and proven to perform in high heat environments.
*
Buses and all other vehicles that require high amperage output.
*
See application guide or contact PennTex for availability of specific application.
Options:
*
Note the rating... 160A at 3,000rpm HOT.... Maxes out at 190A HOT --- but cold is only slightly more 230A.
But it can put out this power at somewhere around 80% or higher duty cycle... all day... all nite...
New User
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
HAS YOUR PROBLEM BEEN SOLVED???
have you found the root casue to this problem - i am replacing number 8 on my 2003 6.0l diesel - bad diodes according to snap on tool - my total mileage is 176k kilometres
I have a 2005 6.0 Diesel f250. I just replaced my 6th alternator in 108k miles. The alt I put in prior to the last one was a 200a alternator. It lasted the longest, 1.5 years. I have had Ford replace them as well as having them rebuilt myself. This current one (lifetime warrenty, from chain auto parts store) is already showing burning signs on the windings. I have become weary of the battle. And as for replacing them in 10 minutes? I have not done it that fast and would be interested to know how it is done so quickly without pry-baring the belt, thanks for your input, John.
New User
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
AND I THOUGHT THE LEMON LAW WAS TO PROTECT YOU ALL IN THE US.
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