I think you mean range of display not being primary goal. If accuracy wasn't the primary goal, then what would be the point of trying to alert the driver of an overboost condition if the gauge is off by 10 psi?

 

Contrary to popular opinion, more boost doesn't necessarly translate in to more power.

 

I mean accuracy as is +/- .5 psi at full scale, it's not required. Another example the engine temperature gauge doesn't provide actual temperature #'s but it provides the driving when an overtemp condition is occurring and for the driving to take evassive action. These gauges resolution and/accuracy is good enough to alert the driving when a problem has developed.

 

I actually disagree with that. Not only is the actual end number a concern, but how quickly the temps raise can also alert you to an issue, even though those temps may not raise up to the end temp. that's definitively a bad temp to be at.

For instance, when my tranny was going out, it happened during the winter where we were getting 20* weather. I noticed on my TFT, both analog and OBD-II readings, were showing quick raises in tranny temp. We are talking about from less then 100 to 160 degrees in 10 minutes, in 20* weather. It takes me about 20 min to get to 160 in 90* weather and that's with a tranny that runs hotter then stock as it is(due to how it's built). Bare in mind, 160*s isn't a temp worth worrying about in normal conditions, but it's how quickly it got to that temp given the ambient temp and other driving conditions(normal driving, no load). If I was relying on the TFT gauge in the cluster, I doubt it would have alerted me when an issue had developed until spring or summer time or until I was getting funky rpm movements.

 

OK... Let me try again! The factory engine temp gauge doesnt' have quantifiable numbers, but it does have a red section to alert the driver a problem has developed.

 

Ok, let me try again. You can have problems and those gauges will not let you know that a problem has developed. That to me does not fit the "accurate enough" monikar that you have given it.

Yes, if those gauges are in the red then a problem has come about(either a sender issue or a true mechanical issue). However, those gauges can read good and you still have problems. Just because those gauges aren't in the red, doesn't mean you don't have problems.

So my question is to you: If the stock gauges don't let you know everytime that a problem is/has occured, how can you say that they are accurate enough? To me, if it was accurate enough, it would be able to let you know when every time a problem is occuring(if the gauge and it's related components are in working order of course).

My direct clutch on my tranny was shot. I saw how burned it was. My cluster TFT gauge never moved past normal. That to me doesn't spell out "accurate enough", but that could just be me.

 

[quote=tex25025;8985679]Ok, let me try again. You can have problems and those gauges will not let you know that a problem has developed. That to me does not fit the "accurate enough" monikar that you have given it.

Yes, if those gauges are in the red then a problem has come about(either a sender issue or a true mechanical issue). However, those gauges can read good and you still have problems. Just because those gauges aren't in the red, doesn't mean you don't have problems.

Agreed, that's why I said a problem HAS developed.

So my question is to you: If the stock gauges don't let you know everytime that a problem is/has occured, how can you say that they are accurate enough? To me, if it was accurate enough, it would be able to let you know when every time a problem is occuring(if the gauge and it's related components are in working order of course).

Can you tell me exactly at what temp does the 6.0 psd engine will have a catastrophic failure within a +/- 50* F tolerance?

quote]

 

My direct clutch was fried. Totally shot. My stock tranny gauge never got above the normal position.

Both my analog TFT gauge and my obd-II TFT gauge was showing that I was going from less then 100 to 160 degrees in 10 minutes in the dead of winter(20*). Now 160 degrees would not cause the stock gauge to move past normal. In fact, 160 degrees is not a dangerous temp to be at. It's the fact that it moved from less then 100* to 160* in 10 minutes in 20* weather.

I had a tranny guy take it apart and lo and behold the direct clutch was shot. Either that or the tranny guy showed me someone else's tranny and passed it off as mine.

It doesn't exactly have to hit an extreme temp in order for their to be a problem, it's how quickly it raises to temps giving the conditions that it's in. I rarely pull anything in the winter, I could have gone all winter and that stock gauge wouldn't have showed a thing. Most of my trips would be 14 miles round trip, at most during the winter.

As to your +/- 50* comment, that spread becomes increasing importent the closer you are to the threshold of too high of a temp. 1200 on EGTs no...however, a +50 degree spread at 1225, yea, that might cause some issues if it's prelonged. You can hit pretty hot EGTs with a stock program I might add as well, surprisingly enough. That can be applied to anything on the + end of the spectrum for any reading you want to take. It all depends on how close that temp. is to the threshold of too much.

However, like in my example, sometimes it's not how hot it is, but how quickly it gets hot(rather or not it get's too hot is another question).

 

Another thing is it is well noted that the ect is a glorified idiot light. When my truck was getting hot I was watching, obd II gauge, analog gauge, and stock gauge. My ectwhouod get up to 240-250 degrees before the stock one would move, and then it would go strait to the red. I would say in most cases by the time the stock gauge moves you are already to hot.

 

OK... Since you cannot say at what temp (and I'm giving you some room with a +50* F error) in which the engine will develop a catrastrophic failure, what engine temp gauge are you going to rely on? An Aftermarket temperature gauge that you don't have any idea where the threshold for failure or the factory gauge that's in the RED?

 

Your missing the point. My stock cluster gauge never showed red at all. I still had failure when your "accurate enough" gauge never showed that there was the slightest issue at all with my tranny. What's the point of having a red marking at all to alerts us to issues when those issues can happen at lower temps as well. Also I do have a TFT gauge that has color coding on it(that one isn't installed though, won it in a raffle). You can get a/m gauges that have color coding on them. I don't know why you just assumed that you couldn't. You want to know how I get around not having markingson the gauge that is installed, I put a self imposed limit of 200 degrees and I back off when it hits that. I know the TS can handle more then that, but it's a temp that I've never hit at all even when my direct clutch was fried(remember I noticed it by how quickly it heated up, how can you tell that on the stock gauge?), so when I do, I know my tranny must be getting worked.

If I didn't have the a/m gauges at all, I would have never caught that failure until I started hauling loads or until summer really hit(maybe, or I might have had to wait until it cascaded into even worse of a failure). Either way, I could have been in peak horse show season and I would have had to miss out on shows compared to having spotted the issue in the winter.

Your "accurate enough" gauge did not let me know me know an issue had developed. You don't have to hit those high temperatures in order to be having problems. Your hung up on that.

My cluster TFT gauge never, I repeat, never moved above normal at all. Yet, it still turned out I had a fried direct clutch. How do you believe that makes atleast the stock TFT gauge "accurate enough"?

Now, I would imagine that if I was hauling one of my ~16k horse loads during peak show season in the summer, I'm sure that it would have read in the red, but that would be one helluva time for it to tell me I had a problem. That wouldn't be good for me or the horses.

In all honesty, given my experience with the stock cluster gauge, we might as well just have an overheat light that comes on. That's just about as "accurate enough" as our stock TFT gauge.

Once again, it's not just at what extreme temp you finally hit, it's how quickly those temp raise. I think your just hung up on the bottom line issue of what's the final temp. You might be having issues and not be driving it long enough, hard enough, or whatever to get it to finally show up in the red. Just because it's not in the red, doesn't mean your not having issues.

Bottomline, to me anyway, is that gauges are to help you avoid catastrophic engine failure, not just tell you when you're there, which is about as good as the factory gauges are. Just letting you know you are there.

 

Thanks for all the replies guys. Like stated earlier, going to clean the turbo and see if I have a more consistent PSI. We will see. Thanks again

 

I don't plan on getting into the battle however, I do have to side with Tex. There is a fair to good chance that by the time a factory gauge gets to the red zone that what ever piece of equipment it is protecting is already toast. And as sensitive as these beasts elctronics are, they don't even have a 3 dollar voltmeter on board. In my op. if your a/m gauges say Mattel on them they are probably more useful than the factory gauges.