Lectrocuted...
I agree, the only advantage I have seen from an OHC motor is a higher redline. And that is great... when you're street racing. In a regular pickup whether it is 2 or 4wd anything over 3500 RPM is pretty much useless, when it comes to pushing, pulling, and driving off road an engine hardly ever reaches anything above that. A majority of the older truck engines made their best power at lower RPMs. And if they are properly cared for they'll purr like a kitten for a very long time. These new engines are not really a breakthrough, but more of an improvement of their less efficient but reliable predecesors. Although I personally feel that replacing the good ol 300 with the 4.2 liter V6 was a mistake. It just doesn't have what the old inline six did as far as torque and pulling power.

 

I just don't understand why anyone would want/need a long stroke engine (5.4) to rev high other than to say it's been done. An oxymoron in my book.

 

I agree, winding the hell out of a long stroke engine will only wear it out faster and cause it to use more fuel.

 

In my opinion the whole thing comes down to more with less. The new trucks are built tighter but with cheap materials than older trucks. So the question is would you rather own a truck that has more creature comforts and has a better ride and handling but will won't last in 20 years because of 10 miles of electrical wiring and thousands of dollars worth of computers, Or would you rather have a heavier frame (not stronger) more sheet metal (although more rust) and a simple engine that will last 40 years. It always comes down to me is what would you rather have in the desert a 04 150 or a 74 150. For me I'll take the 74. If your a supermarket mamma then take the 04.

 

Hey guys, I've never used this forum before. I've been stuck in the 80-86 forum( trying to get 84 on the road). I've only had limited expierence with the old motor( my 84 has a 77 302 and after I shelled out $400 to an ole boy who said he was done with her and did a little tinkering in his driveway I drove my new automatic c6 4wd home) and it was a rough ride( but what do expect from a truck that sat over a year without even being started was low on oil, had no coolant, was 10 degrees out of time and had a clogged up carb). A buddy og mine had a 78 F150 with a 351w. I had a 98 f150 with the wimpy 4.6( ford should have stuck with 302). She ran good and the truck could handle much more load than my buddy's 78 but the motor and tranny couldn't take the abuse his could and pulling a load uphill( forget it). The new ones have plenty of horse and sure look pretty going up the road but at 25-30k I'll stick with my 20 year old blue beauty( well she's a diamond in the rough) that so far I only have 600 invested and will have around 2k when she's done. Then let's see new blue even try to out work her. But fair is fair the old motors and trucks could touch the new 6.0 diesel or even the 7.3 these babies know how to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

In my opinion for could of kept the 300 302 351w 460 EFI engines. My 94 runs just as good or even beter then one of those new tritons. And the 460 could of been re designed to make lots more HP and TQ. But I guess as some would say it just wasnt meant to happen .

But any way I would rather have a old 70's truck with a C6 and a 390 to keep as a Heavy Duty Truck and have a rather new one for cruisen.

 

The one thing about today trucks is not so much the motors, because they are all great motors, it just depends on what you want:simple, easy to work on, a motor meant to work, or a computer controled motor meant to work and drive but you need a shop to get it worked on. I believe that the motors today are great but need to get that work acholic(sp?) attitude that the older ones had. Anyway back to the subject, the trucks today need the suspension that can handle oil rig driving without breaking or getting stuck. Now Ford has this right with the Superduties, but needs to bring to the half tons as well as the others to. For example, the Twin Traction beams(if cared for properly like anything else) and straight axles could take a butt kicking (You should what my dad does to our 82' f-150 4x4) and cheep ticking, its just to bad they don't build em' like they use to: tough, relieable, and cheap.

 

I have to agree with the above response the suspension systems today just can not take the beating that the old trucks could. Today manufacturers mainly focus no ride quality and not strength. The TTB system is tough, the one on my 84 F150 is holding up excellant. It sees off roading quite regularly and takes everything I dish out. I installed a heavier duty set of springs and urethane pivot and radius arm bushings. I am not running sway bars on the front but with the stiffer springs it corner quite well for a truck of it's size and still rides half way decent. The Super Duty is heavy duty by todays standards, but nothing compared to the old iron. My 77 F250 has 6 leafs in the front and 9 in the back. Unless I am mistaken the Super Duty only has 2 or 3 leafs in front and 4 or 5 in front. I have yet to see a new truck stacked to the cab roof with firewood that does'nt have it's rear wheels stuffed up in the wheel wells. They just don't build em heavy anymore.

 

TO hell with it...LOL! just supercharge the damm thing.........UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! you guys see that edition of super truck where that fx4 fiber glass shaker hood was put over a 4.6 supercharged v-8.....boys this is some very bad stuff........gotta luv it!!!!

 

YEA BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! let it all hang out!!!!! LOL. Well i agree about the reliability of the 4.6 and 5.4. As far as machining of the cylinders go for that tighter and much smoother purr as you romp on it! Got to love those new CNC's out there for that.....

Mark Elliot
CNC techinician

 

Yes I agree, that 4.6 is an impressive powerplant. In many ways I feel it is better than the old 5.0. But it is very expensive to build a modular motor. Where the 5.0 is still a dime a dozen.

 

In general Fords are expensive to build but the H.P. ya get from it usually is stought and reliable.

 

Very true they make good power and they hold together for quite a long time. They don't call it Ford Tough for nothing!

 

Where did Ford Go wrong? The same place all car makers went wrong. GREED

Ford (Chevy or Dodge) doesn't give a ****if it sells a better truck or not. They only care if it SELLS....period. And the profit margin has to be absurdly HIGH. These new trucks (Ford, GM, Dodge, Toy, etc). are ALL OPORPOS (acronym for Over Rated Over Priced Piece Of ****).

The price of new trucks today is absolutely out of sync with income and with the cost of everthing else. Trucks (and cars in general) have risen almost 400% in the past 20 years. Yet incomes have not(the possible exception being UAW). Housing has not. Clothes, milk, Nike shoes HAVE NOT! I did not simply pull that 300% figure outta my *** either.

In 1982 pops bought a brand new 4x4 Chevy Suburban....loaded to the nines....MSRP $12,588. Today a comparable Suburban is almost $50,000!!! That's a 300% increase. That is absurd. It wouldn't be so bad if pops income had risen to match this absurd cost but it HAS NOT.

Now go back to 1982. Pops income was right at $30,000....in 1982. He had an average middle income job. He was an electrician for a large national company. However today that same job for same company does NOT pay $120,000 per year (300% increase). No instead it pays $61,000 (a mere 100% increase). In '82 a new Suburban ate less than half of this man's wage. In 2003 it takes almost the entire years salary.

Milk has NOT increased 400%. Water?...no. Housing?...not even close...according to HUD figures housing costs are up about 250%since 1980. This almost parallels household income. Gasoline....what a joke. gasoline is actually CHEAPER than it was in 1982 when adjusted for inflation. I remember gasoline in '82 cost about $1.20 per gallon. Now it's $1.40-50. And people just bitch and moan about gasoline....gimme a freakin break. They ought to be pissed at DETROIT!!!! Not Houston!

Cars and Trucks are absolutely TOO STINKIN' HIGH. And they are NOT any better than 20 years ago. CASE IN POINT Pops still has the old '82 Burb. The damned thing looks good and runs strong with the original engine and transmission. It has 280,000 miles with no major failures and gets 15-16 mpg with that old 350 motor. AC still gets cold. Towed a 27 foot camper all over the Rockies for the past 20 years most summers.

If any of you guys are old enough to recall then think about what you're income was 20 years ago and what it is today. Then compare the cost of these OPORPOS to the trucks of 20 years ago. If you aren't outraged then you should be.

I'll say it again. Cars and trucks are way out of sync with peoples incomes. They are TOO high. But the situation will never change until YOU the consumer stops buying brand new vehicles. This is the only way to force Detroit to rethink their absurd pricing scheme.

Cody

ps: I didn't buy my Xpedition new. It was used (8 months -20,000 miles) and was deeply discounted (roughly $11,000 off MSRP). It'll will a longtime before I ever buy a brand new car again because they are simply TOO HIGH.

 

I have had my share of older and new trucks and they really can't be compared in my opinion. I have lived in the boonies and in the city and the difference between the two are just as great as the difference in the trucks. Living in or near the city you will be much better off with the new ones. My favorite truck of all time was my 79 F150 4X4 with the big 300. But, that truck would be useless for my needs today. The 79 would run 87 mph wide open and it was working the heck out of it to do that. If you were running into a head wind, it would barely break 80. My 2000 with the 5.4 will run 90 mph without any effort at all. The new truck, on the other hand is flimsy and I believe you could stare a dent in it if you tried. I traded in an 89 with the 300 for my 2000, and what a world of difference in towing power there is. The old 300, while a reliable and long-lasting motor can't hold a candle to the new motor. Pulling my boat with the 89 was working it hard to run the speed limit, while with the 5.4 I have no problem setting the cruise control and hardly know it is back there. The main difference from my view is with the gearing. What I would like to see is for Ford to take an old 300 and make a modern motor out of it. Dual overhead cams with Variable valve timing, balance the motor so that it can turn up the rpm's, make it breath free, and then we would have a motor. I would venture to guess that Ford could pull a dependable 350 to 400 horsepower from this engine and make us all happy. For those who prefer the sound of a V8, imagine one of the old big blocks with dual overhead cams, balancing, multiport injection, and so on...... That would be interesting.