11-19-2014, 05:55 PM
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Gooch's Radiator/Engine Backflush Procedure and Coolant Information
#181
01-23-2013, 12:22 PM
Post #5 on page 1 covers this. Here's the post for ya!
The following information from Gooch pertains to why ELC's are not recommended for use in early '99 7.3L PSD's.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mostly it's the injector cups. International, who made the engine, found some compatibility issues with the older injector cup material, sensors, front cover, seals, gaskets, o-rings, and probably some other stuff when using coolants that contained organic acid technology (OAT). Coolants like ELC's (usually Red) and G-05 (usually Gold) will have these OAT's. Conventional coolants (usually Green) will not.
So International revised those components on all 2/2/99-up build engines (SN 940614-up), and began recommending and factory filling with HD ELC coolants mid-year 2000. Never looked back.
You could use HD ELC's in the older engines, but you run the risk of having to replace the cups and maybe some other stuff. I always try to recommend conventional coolant meeting ASTM D4985 with SCA or a pre-charged conventional coolant meeting ASTM D6210 for those. But it's your call, and some owners use the ELC in their older engine successfully. For the 2/2/99-up builds I would highly recommend upgrading to HD ELC.
BTW, if you need to check the build date of your engine, you can find it on the valve-cover tag (driver's side), or stamped on a machined surface on the underside of the engine, behind the oil filter and just ahead of the bell-housing cover. You may need to wire brush/clean it to read it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stewart
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mostly it's the injector cups. International, who made the engine, found some compatibility issues with the older injector cup material, sensors, front cover, seals, gaskets, o-rings, and probably some other stuff when using coolants that contained organic acid technology (OAT). Coolants like ELC's (usually Red) and G-05 (usually Gold) will have these OAT's. Conventional coolants (usually Green) will not.
So International revised those components on all 2/2/99-up build engines (SN 940614-up), and began recommending and factory filling with HD ELC coolants mid-year 2000. Never looked back.
You could use HD ELC's in the older engines, but you run the risk of having to replace the cups and maybe some other stuff. I always try to recommend conventional coolant meeting ASTM D4985 with SCA or a pre-charged conventional coolant meeting ASTM D6210 for those. But it's your call, and some owners use the ELC in their older engine successfully. For the 2/2/99-up builds I would highly recommend upgrading to HD ELC.
BTW, if you need to check the build date of your engine, you can find it on the valve-cover tag (driver's side), or stamped on a machined surface on the underside of the engine, behind the oil filter and just ahead of the bell-housing cover. You may need to wire brush/clean it to read it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stewart
Last edited by Stewart_H; 01-23-2013 at 12:26 PM.
#182
01-23-2013, 12:33 PM
Stewart,
Good, thanks for that reference. I did read that, but the question is how does that compare against that "letter" (if we can call it that) from the IH rep in which he states that only 2002 and newer 7.3s should use the ELC? Ergo, which is correct?
I'm sure you are aware of the letter I'm referring to, but for completion, here it is anyway:
Thanks!
Good, thanks for that reference. I did read that, but the question is how does that compare against that "letter" (if we can call it that) from the IH rep in which he states that only 2002 and newer 7.3s should use the ELC? Ergo, which is correct?
I'm sure you are aware of the letter I'm referring to, but for completion, here it is anyway:
Hot Summer... Cool Diesel
By, Mark Wildman
Field Service Representative
International Truck and Engine Corporation
The mid-summer heat is intense across the country – which means the
biggest concern for your diesel truck, van or SUV is your cooling
system. There are several options for coolants on the market today,
and not all of them are good for your engine. This article addresses
the differences between conventional and extended life coolants, why
your diesel engine’s well-being depends on proper coolant
maintenance, and how to maintain your Power Stroke® Diesel engine so
it can perform at its best all summer long.
Types of Coolant
There are three basic types of coolant: Ethylene Glycol (EG), or
conventional coolant, is typically green; Long Life, or Extended
Life, Ethylene Glycol is typically yellow; and Propylene Glycol (PG)
is typically red and sometimes referred to as “non-toxic” coolant.
The term non-toxic can be confusing – all coolants are toxic, and
should not be ingested. “Non-toxic” is associated with PG-based
coolant because the United States Food and Drug Administration has
classified Propylene Glycol as Generally Regarded As Safe (GRAS) in
its pure form. The coolant manufacturer adds toxic chemicals to the
PG base. Because of its toxicity, keep all coolants away from
children and pets and dispose of all waste coolant properly.
PG coolant is not recommended for Power Stroke Diesel engines.
Because of its chemical makeup, PG coolants can cause damage to
aluminum parts, gasket materials and certain kinds of hoses. It also
has a lower boiling point than EG coolant, usually 10 F to 15 F
lower. While it may not sound like much, in a modern cooling system
with a high output engine a few degrees may make all the difference
in the world. Coolants that are methyl alcohol or methoxy
proponol-based should also never be used.
Extended Life Coolant
Extended life coolants are available for newer model diesel engines
(2002 model year). Extended life coolants provide a longer service
interval under normal conditions, because they don’t require the
addition of supplemental coolant additives (SCA). These new coolants
use advanced organic acid technology, which depletes much more
slowly than traditional coolant additives, to protect the engine.
Ford Motor Company has determined that either conventional Ethylene
Glycol (green colored) or Extended Life Ethylene Glycol (yellow
colored) coolant, such as Motorcraft Premium Gold Engine Coolant,
will meet the needs of the cooling system and will perform well in
extreme conditions as long as the vehicle is operated correctly.
PG-coolants such as Motorcraft Specialty Orange are not recommended
for the Power Stroke Diesel engine.
Extended Life EG coolants used with the 2002 model year F-Series
pickups and Excursions will allow for intervals of 100,000 miles or
five years, which ever occurs first, and will not need SCAs if they
are maintained properly. All 2001 model year and prior Power Stroke
Diesel engines are not compatible with extended life coolant. These
models had the proper amount of SCA added at the engine plant before
they were shipped, but will need to be maintained as described in
the “cavitation protection” section of this article.
If you have a 2002 model year engine, do not mix the Extended Life
Ethylene Glycol (yellow) with the conventional Ethylene Glycol
(green) under any circumstance. If you accidentally mix extended
life coolant with conventional coolant and the mixture exceeds 10
percent, the coolant must be maintained as a conventional system
using SCAs, or should be drained and flushed, then refilled with new
extended life coolant.
Conventional EG Coolant
The proper mix of coolant is important when using conventional green
coolants. If the coolant concentration is too high in a vehicle’s
cooling system, then silicates will separate and drop out of the
coolant. These silicates can form a paste that plugs heater cores,
radiator tubes and may lead to water pump failure if a large amount
of the silicate paste lodges between the seal lip and the seal’s
riding surface. Silicate paste can also plug small passages in the
engine, leading to damaging hot spots. Too low of a coolant
concentration, on the other hand, may lead to freezing, which can
also cause engine damage.
A proper coolant concentration is also needed to protect against
corrosion in the cooling system. If the concentration is too low,
rust and corrosion can take place inside the cooling system and lead
to water pump failure. Scale build up can lead to hot spots on
cylinder walls that can cause pistons to scuff or score. Rust and
corrosion can also cause erosion damage to the aluminum parts of the
engine and may result in expensive repairs.
The recommended coolant concentration is a 50/50 mix of coolant with
distilled water. The maximum acceptable coolant system concentration
is 60 percent in extreme conditions. In these conditions, follow the
chart on coolant container for the recommended water to coolant
ratio. The minimum concentration should not go below 40 percent.
Cavitation Protection and SCAs
SCAs provide cavitation protection for conventional green coolant.
Cavitation is erosion that occurs on the outside diameter of the
cylinder wall, and can happen if vapor bubbles form in the cooling
system and attach to the wall.
Every time the pistons move up and down, they rock in the bore,
causing the cylinder wall to vibrate. Vapor bubbles can form on the
outside of the cylinder wall as it moves inward, or away from the
coolant, creating a low-pressure area. When the cylinder wall moves
outward, or into the coolant, the pressure increases on the vapor
bubbles. After many cycles, vapor bubbles continue to form and the
pressure on the bubbles increases until, finally, a vapor bubble
collapses. When this happens, it creates a localized stress area of
more than 50,000 psi. The high pressure and heat created by the
implosion removes a small amount of cylinder wall material where the
vapor bubble was attached. Over time, the cylinder wall can continue
to erode, and eventually may form a pinhole in the wall that allows
coolant to enter the combustion chamber, leading to possible engine
failure.
Unlike diesel engines, gas engines do not need cavitation
protection. This is because diesel engines are more likely to be
used in heavy-duty applications and operate under higher loads for
longer periods of time. By nature, diesel engines often have
cylinder pressures greater than twice the cylinder pressure of a
gasoline engine. This combination of high load and high combustion
pressures creates the violent cylinder wall vibrations that lead to
cavitation. Most gasoline engines will not experience enough of this
kind of operation in its life to cause a failure. Although rare,
there have been occurrences where a gasoline engine did fail from
cavitation erosion.
You can protect your diesel engine from cavitation by adding the
proper amount of SCA to an EG cooling system. When used properly,
SCAs help neutralize acids and provide anti-foam protection as well
as prevent cavitation, scale and general corrosion. SCAs work to
prevent cavitation by forming a protective coating on the cooling
system surfaces. This coating will provide a barrier between the
cylinder wall and the vapor bubbles. The vapor bubble implosions
erode the SCA protective coating instead of the cylinder wall.
If your cooling system was originally equipped with green coolant,
you will periodically need to maintain your coolant’s additive
package. The higher the loads and the more miles, the more the SCA
is depleted from the system. Under normal service conditions, you
will need to add 8 to 10 ounces of SCA every 15,000 miles, as
identified in your Scheduled Maintenance Guide. Under severe service
(e.g. towing a trailer) add 16 ounces. We recommend Motorcraft?
Heavy Duty Cooling System Additive, part #VC-8 which is DCA-4. The
equivalent will be referred to as Fleetguard DCA4 and meets material
specification ESN-M99B169-A. At service intervals where the coolant
is replaced, two 16-ounce bottles of SCA should be added.
Too much SCA in your cooling system can cause water pump seal
failures. In most cases, if you follow the guidelines listed above,
your Power Stroke Diesel cooling system will be in good shape. If
there is a question about the level of SCA protection in the system,
you can use test strips to check the level of SCA in the cooling
system. A Fleetguard? test strip kit (DCA4 Test Strip Kit CC2602)
can be found at International® truck dealerships. The $40.00 kit
comes with 50 strips and expires in one year, so this may not be
practical for the individual user. Most medium and heavy-duty truck
shops will test your cooling system for a fee.
The test strip bottle has a scale that tells what level of
protection the system has by matching the colors that are on the
test strip. The strip has three pads that will turn color to
indicate the amount of SCA in the system as units per gallon, and
should read between 2 to 3 units for the Power Stroke Diesel. One
pad indicates the freeze point level, and the other two indicate the
SCA protection level by checking for nitrite and Molybdate. After
you add SCA, wait to retest the system until it has been completely
mixed, or driven for 30 continuous miles.
Maintenance Guidelines
To prevent unnecessary engine damage and keep your engine running in
top condition, coolant system testing should be performed at least
two times per year, preferably in the spring and fall. A
Refractometer ($80 to $200) is the most accurate method for checking
coolant temperature protection level. Refractometers work by
magnifying the light properties of the coolant and displaying the
results on a temperature scale.
A hydrometer is another common method for testing the cooling
system. It works by checking specific gravity of the coolant.
Hydrometers check the PH levels of the coolant and turn the strip to
a varying shade of green. This color indicator is matched to a
scale, indicating the level of temperature protection. If you use a
hydrometer, be sure that it is made for Ethylene Glycol coolant.
Recommendations and Tips
Depending on the type of coolant your cooling system originally
contained, you should use either Ford Premium EG (green) coolant
(P/N E2FZ-19549-AA Ford reference number VC-4-A), an equivalent that
meets specification ESE-M97B44-A, or Motorcraft Premium Gold Coolant
meeting specification WSS-M97B44-D
Maintain a 50/50 mix using distilled water. Water that has minerals
in it (or hard water) should not be used. The minerals will lower
the boiling point and can increase corrosion in the system.
Under normal driving conditions, the green EG coolant should be
changed at 48 months or 50,000 miles for the first time, then every
36 months or 30,000 miles every time after. SCAs must be added and
maintained with this coolant.
If your cooling system is equipped with Motorcraft Premium Gold
Engine Coolant (reference number VC-7-A), your coolant should be
changed every 100,000 miles or 5 years, and no SCA added. Coolant
may need to be changed more frequently if vehicle is under harsh
driving conditions such as towing, heavy loads or operating in
extreme temperatures.
Field Service Representative
International Truck and Engine Corporation
The mid-summer heat is intense across the country – which means the
biggest concern for your diesel truck, van or SUV is your cooling
system. There are several options for coolants on the market today,
and not all of them are good for your engine. This article addresses
the differences between conventional and extended life coolants, why
your diesel engine’s well-being depends on proper coolant
maintenance, and how to maintain your Power Stroke® Diesel engine so
it can perform at its best all summer long.
Types of Coolant
There are three basic types of coolant: Ethylene Glycol (EG), or
conventional coolant, is typically green; Long Life, or Extended
Life, Ethylene Glycol is typically yellow; and Propylene Glycol (PG)
is typically red and sometimes referred to as “non-toxic” coolant.
The term non-toxic can be confusing – all coolants are toxic, and
should not be ingested. “Non-toxic” is associated with PG-based
coolant because the United States Food and Drug Administration has
classified Propylene Glycol as Generally Regarded As Safe (GRAS) in
its pure form. The coolant manufacturer adds toxic chemicals to the
PG base. Because of its toxicity, keep all coolants away from
children and pets and dispose of all waste coolant properly.
PG coolant is not recommended for Power Stroke Diesel engines.
Because of its chemical makeup, PG coolants can cause damage to
aluminum parts, gasket materials and certain kinds of hoses. It also
has a lower boiling point than EG coolant, usually 10 F to 15 F
lower. While it may not sound like much, in a modern cooling system
with a high output engine a few degrees may make all the difference
in the world. Coolants that are methyl alcohol or methoxy
proponol-based should also never be used.
Extended Life Coolant
Extended life coolants are available for newer model diesel engines
(2002 model year). Extended life coolants provide a longer service
interval under normal conditions, because they don’t require the
addition of supplemental coolant additives (SCA). These new coolants
use advanced organic acid technology, which depletes much more
slowly than traditional coolant additives, to protect the engine.
Ford Motor Company has determined that either conventional Ethylene
Glycol (green colored) or Extended Life Ethylene Glycol (yellow
colored) coolant, such as Motorcraft Premium Gold Engine Coolant,
will meet the needs of the cooling system and will perform well in
extreme conditions as long as the vehicle is operated correctly.
PG-coolants such as Motorcraft Specialty Orange are not recommended
for the Power Stroke Diesel engine.
Extended Life EG coolants used with the 2002 model year F-Series
pickups and Excursions will allow for intervals of 100,000 miles or
five years, which ever occurs first, and will not need SCAs if they
are maintained properly. All 2001 model year and prior Power Stroke
Diesel engines are not compatible with extended life coolant. These
models had the proper amount of SCA added at the engine plant before
they were shipped, but will need to be maintained as described in
the “cavitation protection” section of this article.
If you have a 2002 model year engine, do not mix the Extended Life
Ethylene Glycol (yellow) with the conventional Ethylene Glycol
(green) under any circumstance. If you accidentally mix extended
life coolant with conventional coolant and the mixture exceeds 10
percent, the coolant must be maintained as a conventional system
using SCAs, or should be drained and flushed, then refilled with new
extended life coolant.
Conventional EG Coolant
The proper mix of coolant is important when using conventional green
coolants. If the coolant concentration is too high in a vehicle’s
cooling system, then silicates will separate and drop out of the
coolant. These silicates can form a paste that plugs heater cores,
radiator tubes and may lead to water pump failure if a large amount
of the silicate paste lodges between the seal lip and the seal’s
riding surface. Silicate paste can also plug small passages in the
engine, leading to damaging hot spots. Too low of a coolant
concentration, on the other hand, may lead to freezing, which can
also cause engine damage.
A proper coolant concentration is also needed to protect against
corrosion in the cooling system. If the concentration is too low,
rust and corrosion can take place inside the cooling system and lead
to water pump failure. Scale build up can lead to hot spots on
cylinder walls that can cause pistons to scuff or score. Rust and
corrosion can also cause erosion damage to the aluminum parts of the
engine and may result in expensive repairs.
The recommended coolant concentration is a 50/50 mix of coolant with
distilled water. The maximum acceptable coolant system concentration
is 60 percent in extreme conditions. In these conditions, follow the
chart on coolant container for the recommended water to coolant
ratio. The minimum concentration should not go below 40 percent.
Cavitation Protection and SCAs
SCAs provide cavitation protection for conventional green coolant.
Cavitation is erosion that occurs on the outside diameter of the
cylinder wall, and can happen if vapor bubbles form in the cooling
system and attach to the wall.
Every time the pistons move up and down, they rock in the bore,
causing the cylinder wall to vibrate. Vapor bubbles can form on the
outside of the cylinder wall as it moves inward, or away from the
coolant, creating a low-pressure area. When the cylinder wall moves
outward, or into the coolant, the pressure increases on the vapor
bubbles. After many cycles, vapor bubbles continue to form and the
pressure on the bubbles increases until, finally, a vapor bubble
collapses. When this happens, it creates a localized stress area of
more than 50,000 psi. The high pressure and heat created by the
implosion removes a small amount of cylinder wall material where the
vapor bubble was attached. Over time, the cylinder wall can continue
to erode, and eventually may form a pinhole in the wall that allows
coolant to enter the combustion chamber, leading to possible engine
failure.
Unlike diesel engines, gas engines do not need cavitation
protection. This is because diesel engines are more likely to be
used in heavy-duty applications and operate under higher loads for
longer periods of time. By nature, diesel engines often have
cylinder pressures greater than twice the cylinder pressure of a
gasoline engine. This combination of high load and high combustion
pressures creates the violent cylinder wall vibrations that lead to
cavitation. Most gasoline engines will not experience enough of this
kind of operation in its life to cause a failure. Although rare,
there have been occurrences where a gasoline engine did fail from
cavitation erosion.
You can protect your diesel engine from cavitation by adding the
proper amount of SCA to an EG cooling system. When used properly,
SCAs help neutralize acids and provide anti-foam protection as well
as prevent cavitation, scale and general corrosion. SCAs work to
prevent cavitation by forming a protective coating on the cooling
system surfaces. This coating will provide a barrier between the
cylinder wall and the vapor bubbles. The vapor bubble implosions
erode the SCA protective coating instead of the cylinder wall.
If your cooling system was originally equipped with green coolant,
you will periodically need to maintain your coolant’s additive
package. The higher the loads and the more miles, the more the SCA
is depleted from the system. Under normal service conditions, you
will need to add 8 to 10 ounces of SCA every 15,000 miles, as
identified in your Scheduled Maintenance Guide. Under severe service
(e.g. towing a trailer) add 16 ounces. We recommend Motorcraft?
Heavy Duty Cooling System Additive, part #VC-8 which is DCA-4. The
equivalent will be referred to as Fleetguard DCA4 and meets material
specification ESN-M99B169-A. At service intervals where the coolant
is replaced, two 16-ounce bottles of SCA should be added.
Too much SCA in your cooling system can cause water pump seal
failures. In most cases, if you follow the guidelines listed above,
your Power Stroke Diesel cooling system will be in good shape. If
there is a question about the level of SCA protection in the system,
you can use test strips to check the level of SCA in the cooling
system. A Fleetguard? test strip kit (DCA4 Test Strip Kit CC2602)
can be found at International® truck dealerships. The $40.00 kit
comes with 50 strips and expires in one year, so this may not be
practical for the individual user. Most medium and heavy-duty truck
shops will test your cooling system for a fee.
The test strip bottle has a scale that tells what level of
protection the system has by matching the colors that are on the
test strip. The strip has three pads that will turn color to
indicate the amount of SCA in the system as units per gallon, and
should read between 2 to 3 units for the Power Stroke Diesel. One
pad indicates the freeze point level, and the other two indicate the
SCA protection level by checking for nitrite and Molybdate. After
you add SCA, wait to retest the system until it has been completely
mixed, or driven for 30 continuous miles.
Maintenance Guidelines
To prevent unnecessary engine damage and keep your engine running in
top condition, coolant system testing should be performed at least
two times per year, preferably in the spring and fall. A
Refractometer ($80 to $200) is the most accurate method for checking
coolant temperature protection level. Refractometers work by
magnifying the light properties of the coolant and displaying the
results on a temperature scale.
A hydrometer is another common method for testing the cooling
system. It works by checking specific gravity of the coolant.
Hydrometers check the PH levels of the coolant and turn the strip to
a varying shade of green. This color indicator is matched to a
scale, indicating the level of temperature protection. If you use a
hydrometer, be sure that it is made for Ethylene Glycol coolant.
Recommendations and Tips
Depending on the type of coolant your cooling system originally
contained, you should use either Ford Premium EG (green) coolant
(P/N E2FZ-19549-AA Ford reference number VC-4-A), an equivalent that
meets specification ESE-M97B44-A, or Motorcraft Premium Gold Coolant
meeting specification WSS-M97B44-D
Maintain a 50/50 mix using distilled water. Water that has minerals
in it (or hard water) should not be used. The minerals will lower
the boiling point and can increase corrosion in the system.
Under normal driving conditions, the green EG coolant should be
changed at 48 months or 50,000 miles for the first time, then every
36 months or 30,000 miles every time after. SCAs must be added and
maintained with this coolant.
If your cooling system is equipped with Motorcraft Premium Gold
Engine Coolant (reference number VC-7-A), your coolant should be
changed every 100,000 miles or 5 years, and no SCA added. Coolant
may need to be changed more frequently if vehicle is under harsh
driving conditions such as towing, heavy loads or operating in
extreme temperatures.
#183
02-05-2013, 02:55 AM
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"All 2001 model year and prior Power Stroke Diesel engines are not compatible with extended life coolant."
Could this be one of the reasons I am doing my 2000 Ex injector cups less than 10k miles after switching out the previous owners gold stuff?
Since I caught the smell of diesel in my Zerex ELC pretty early, I didn't have a noticeable rise in my recovery tank, just a little diesel floating on the surface (by the way, ELC doesn't smell like traditional coolant, so make sure that strange smell coming out of the coolant tank is diesel and not just the funky petroleum-esque aroma of ELC).
My questions are, after my injector cup R&R:
1) Should I run a simple green or dishwashing soap solution through as part of the flush procedure? If I do, would I leave the t-stat in during this cycle?
2) If this is a problem with models before 2001, are my injector cups the only thing I had to worry about, since now they have the approved loctite is it kosher to do ELC? Or could this be harmful to all the other things we typically acknowledge as problematic with ELC and e99s?
And thanks Stewart, Gooch and all the others who have added to this thread!
Could this be one of the reasons I am doing my 2000 Ex injector cups less than 10k miles after switching out the previous owners gold stuff?
Since I caught the smell of diesel in my Zerex ELC pretty early, I didn't have a noticeable rise in my recovery tank, just a little diesel floating on the surface (by the way, ELC doesn't smell like traditional coolant, so make sure that strange smell coming out of the coolant tank is diesel and not just the funky petroleum-esque aroma of ELC).
My questions are, after my injector cup R&R:
1) Should I run a simple green or dishwashing soap solution through as part of the flush procedure? If I do, would I leave the t-stat in during this cycle?
2) If this is a problem with models before 2001, are my injector cups the only thing I had to worry about, since now they have the approved loctite is it kosher to do ELC? Or could this be harmful to all the other things we typically acknowledge as problematic with ELC and e99s?
And thanks Stewart, Gooch and all the others who have added to this thread!
#185
02-05-2013, 01:18 PM
Everything I've read up 'til now has stated L99 trucks and up were ok for ELC. (EDIT: see my post below this one for more info)
Could this be one of the reasons I am doing my 2000 Ex injector cups less than 10k miles after switching out the previous owners gold stuff?
My questions are, after my injector cup R&R:
1) Should I run a simple green or dishwashing soap solution through as part of the flush procedure? If I do, would I leave the t-stat in during this cycle?
1) Should I run a simple green or dishwashing soap solution through as part of the flush procedure? If I do, would I leave the t-stat in during this cycle?
2) If this is a problem with models before 2001, are my injector cups the only thing I had to worry about, since now they have the approved loctite is it kosher to do ELC? Or could this be harmful to all the other things we typically acknowledge as problematic with ELC and e99s?
Stewart
Last edited by Stewart_H; 02-05-2013 at 02:10 PM.
#186
02-05-2013, 01:42 PM
I probably should have just read the article above instead of going by the one sentence that was quoted. Shame on me.
Ok, that article above does not address an Extended Life carboxylate-based coolant, aka OAT ELC.
It addresses a traditional "green" coolant meeting ASTM D4985 that needs to have SCA's added to it, and it addresses the hybrid-OAT Ford "gold" (Zerex G-05) long life coolant Ford started putting in their 2002 MY trucks. But NOT the OAT ELC like Chevron Delo, Fleetrite, Rotella, or any other ELC meeting the Cat EC-1 spec.
The "Propylene Glycol (PG) is typically red and sometimes referred to as “non-toxic” coolant" coolant referred to in the article is NOT the Heavy Duty OAT ELC meeting CAT EC-1 spec that we use in our trucks.
The above article just reiterates the same stance Ford has had since they started using the H-OAT coolant. Nowhere does it say not to use a heavy duty ELC in pre-2002 rigs in that article.
Stewart
Ok, that article above does not address an Extended Life carboxylate-based coolant, aka OAT ELC.
It addresses a traditional "green" coolant meeting ASTM D4985 that needs to have SCA's added to it, and it addresses the hybrid-OAT Ford "gold" (Zerex G-05) long life coolant Ford started putting in their 2002 MY trucks. But NOT the OAT ELC like Chevron Delo, Fleetrite, Rotella, or any other ELC meeting the Cat EC-1 spec.
The "Propylene Glycol (PG) is typically red and sometimes referred to as “non-toxic” coolant" coolant referred to in the article is NOT the Heavy Duty OAT ELC meeting CAT EC-1 spec that we use in our trucks.
The above article just reiterates the same stance Ford has had since they started using the H-OAT coolant. Nowhere does it say not to use a heavy duty ELC in pre-2002 rigs in that article.
Stewart
Last edited by Stewart_H; 02-05-2013 at 05:58 PM.
#187
02-05-2013, 02:05 PM
That letter in no way, shape, or form say's an OAT ELC should only be used in 2002 and newer trucks.
Stewart
#188
05-02-2013, 02:59 PM
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I've now read so many pages regarding doing a Coolant Flush, on many different forums, that my head is spinning. Nearly all of them are based on Gooch's process though.
In going over the procedure on page 1, what I don't see is any reference to running the heater during any of the three flush cycles (hose, distilled #1, or distilled #2). Here's where I show my ignorance however, at least regarding the 7.3L cooling/heater system. It it one continuous, looped system regardless of the heater setting, or is the heater core only in the loop when heat is selected?
Maybe it's just common sense and doesn't need to be asked about, but then again I'm an engineer and I like for things to be exact and spelled-out.
Provided the heater should be used during the flush cycles, with an Excursion, is it safe to assume I'd want to be sure to run the heaters in front and back?
FWIW, along with the coolant flush, I plan on going to an ELC, new thermostat, new thermostat housing, new upper (ambulance style) radiator hose, new lower radiator hoses, and a coolant filter assembly (Diesel Site or Sinister).
thanks,
Herb
In going over the procedure on page 1, what I don't see is any reference to running the heater during any of the three flush cycles (hose, distilled #1, or distilled #2). Here's where I show my ignorance however, at least regarding the 7.3L cooling/heater system. It it one continuous, looped system regardless of the heater setting, or is the heater core only in the loop when heat is selected?
Maybe it's just common sense and doesn't need to be asked about, but then again I'm an engineer and I like for things to be exact and spelled-out.
Provided the heater should be used during the flush cycles, with an Excursion, is it safe to assume I'd want to be sure to run the heaters in front and back?
FWIW, along with the coolant flush, I plan on going to an ELC, new thermostat, new thermostat housing, new upper (ambulance style) radiator hose, new lower radiator hoses, and a coolant filter assembly (Diesel Site or Sinister).
thanks,
Herb
#189
05-02-2013, 05:21 PM
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#190
05-03-2013, 12:40 AM
Stewart
#191
05-03-2013, 12:51 AM
In a perfect scenario, you should flush the heater core separate from the rest of the cooling system. The heater core catches gunk and floaters. Best not to reintroduce them and flush them out separate.
#192
05-03-2013, 06:54 AM
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Herb
#193
05-03-2013, 08:10 AM
Would the heater core catch stuff, like a regular system?
#194
05-03-2013, 09:35 AM
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Herb
#195
05-05-2013, 08:22 PM
BTW, if you need to check the build date of your engine, you can find it on the valve-cover tag (driver's side), or stamped on a machined surface on the underside of the engine, behind the oil filter and just ahead of the bell-housing cover. You may need to wire brush/clean it to read it.
So International revised those components on all 2/2/99-up build engines (SN 940614-up), and began recommending and factory filling with HD ELC coolants mid-year 2000. Never looked back.
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Stewart
So International revised those components on all 2/2/99-up build engines (SN 940614-up), and began recommending and factory filling with HD ELC coolants mid-year 2000. Never looked back.
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Stewart
I'm just trying to get clarification before I do the flush with the Delo ELC I just purchased.
Great post and Thanks,