Briefly, we are a gospel quartet looking for a rig to run the road with. Dont want to go the coach rout, nor the RV route. We were thinking something along these lines: FORD E-450 SHUTTLE COACH CHURCH BUS 24 PASSENGER NICE: eBay Motors (item 170490680606 end time Jun-02-10 08:00:00 PDT)

I "think" I would prefer the V!0 over the powerstroke for a few different reasons, maintenance costs, noise, smell, price of fuel.

Anything I need to know about these V10's? It will be 95% highway miles.

Differing thoughts/opinions?

Thanks......

 

Just wondering, why is that speedo clocking the van at 70, in park? I think you would be pretty satisfied going to V-10 route though, just my 2 cents

 

Hi Opus!
First off, God Bless you for your work! That is awesome that you all have chosen to use music to do God's work.
Don't be so quick to dismiss the diesel. In my 2003 6.0L the noise of the engine on the interstate is barely even heard at all, even with the radio off. When I let off the accelerator, you cannot even hear the motor if you try to. Everybody always talks about how comfortable and quiet my truck is, and that is one of the things that I absolutely love about it. The older 7.3Ls are louder, but also a nice vehicle.
As far as cost of service, the diesels do tend to cost a little more. One of the down sides to the PSDs. There are some tradeoffs however, as a gasoline engine can go 50,000 miles or so without changing the fuel filter, diesels usually about 15K. On the other side, diesels usually go around 5K (recommended) oil change intervals, gasolines usually 3K. This can even be prolonged substantially with additions to a diesel engine such as a bypass filter system.
On the up side, the diesel engines will typically last a lot longer than a gasoline engine. I know you mentioned economy, and yes that is important, but believe it or not you might actually get better mileage out of the slower burning diesel than out of a V10. The torque and power out of a diesel is unmatched, and since the truck has to now use less effort to motivate itself down the road, economy will be increased as well. The down side is that diesel is around $.30 more than entry level gasolines, and can be a little more difficult to find, but again, the increase in mileage can compensate this. Added, there are some places that sell biodiesel, which can be found sometimes cheaper than petroleum diesels.
Lastly is the smell. Diesels have a smell, and so do gasoline engines. Unfortunately, older diesels have set the stereotype that all diesels stink. This is untrue. The efficiency of the newer diesels allows them to burn better, therefore the smells associated with diesels are not nearly as strong, if any. The scent omitted from a diesel is very faint if you stand right outside the truck, and inside if you smell diesel or gas you have bigger issues to attend to. Some diesels even smell like french fries (pure bio) due to the veggie oils that they are manufactured from. The only way to 100% assure that you have a pleasant smell out of the vehicle is to run race gas such as 110 octane. Smells nice and clean, but at $6.50 a gallon it is hardly economical. All in all, gasoline or diesel, they both have their strong points and their weak points. Just be sure to do all the research before you buy and decide exactly what the best vehicle for you to get will be. Good luck!

 

That is a lot of seats for a quartet. Are you thinking of taking out the excess seats for hauling band gear? I am wondering if you really need that much cargo space, because that dually 450 is going to get bad gas mileage. Especially in the older 2 valve V-10. The high profile bus body doesn't help with mileage either.

It needs a cluster, and at nearly 200k miles you have to figure on a new transmission sooner than later.

If you need that kind of vehicle size, and go in with your eyes wide open, then that might suit your needs.

 

What about a Crew Cab 250-450? Seats four very comfortably and you will have a bed for the "tools of the trade". That, or possibly an Excursion. Either would get better mileage.

BTW, I just got back last weekend from a trip to and from Nashville (from Knoxville) in my 350 6.0L dually. It is a Crew Cab long bed (biggest thing they make in a 350) and was pulling a jet ski and trailer behind me. I weigh around 130 and my girl weighs 255lbs. (okay, so I might have gotten that backward. lol). Round trip we averaged over 18mpg! Not bad at all. Probably twice the mileage of the rig in the auction.

 

Ooops...I guess I should have clarified a little. I have owned a powerstroke, driven them for years, drove semis on and on. I am good mechanic, gas or diesel. Sorry I didnt say that earlier, I would have saved you the typing explaining pros/cons of diesels. :/

Remember the 6.9's biggest weakness was head gaskets. I was wondering if there were any idiosyncrasies of the V10 or Powerstrokes newer than the 6.0?

We would pull seats out and put 4 bunks for sleeping in the back, plus pull a 4 x 6 trailer.

I was just using this particular rig as an example. Its pretty far from me to think of buying it, at this point.

I was unaware there is a 4 valve V10. What year did those come in? Thats something thats important to me. Were trannys a weak point in these or should I just consider it will need a tranny at 200K? Same tranny with a Powerstroke too...correct?

I surely would rather put one in beforehand than to sit on the side of the road and have to have it towed, plus missed some dates. I know there is only so much pro-active I can be but I try to stay on things.

I was figuring gas vs diesel could be offset by the price of the fuel as well as the cost of maintenance by me or if I had to get a shop to do it.

 

Biggest issues with the 6.0 head gasket was when people modded them beyond what they were meant to be modded. Tuners and bigger turbos, for example.
The V10 is a fine engine, newer ones use a 3V if I am not mistaken. As for the trannys, it really depends on which trans it has. The 4R100W was a nice trans, but the 5R110W is much stronger and the extra gear can equate to better economy. 6.0s used the 5R110W Torqshift, older 7.3s the 4R100W.
All in all, get something that works out best for your group's needs. Don't rule out either motor.

 

There are 2V and 3V versions of the V10. The trucks and class A RV chassis went to 3V in 2005, but the 2v continued to be used in the E platform (and class C RV) after that. But there definitely are some "exceptions" to every rule! A conversion like that? I assume 2V was used for quite a while after '05.

2V engines have angular black plastic valve covers. 3V have rounded aluminum valve covers.

Fuel economy: The 3V is definitely more powerful at higher RPM. Because of that, it gets less mpg when driven hard. At cruise, they're pretty close, with 2V generally a bit better.
Based on total frontal area of a rig like that, I'd guess you should expect about 8-10 mpg when cruising. 8 if you go 70-75, 10 if 55-60.
I'd expect at least a couple/few mpg more from a diesel.

From what I've read and heard, if you can do all the work yourself and plan to drive it more than 10K/year, the diesel usually works out to be more economical.

Weaknesses of V10: They have aluminum heads and tapered style plugs. A lot of heads have been damaged by "experts" that are too arrogant/lazy to use a torque wrench or follow specs when installing plugs. Result: Quite a few stripped plugs that get spit out. Fortunately, enough that technology and tools have been developed to make repairs relatively easy. The pre-2000 have fewer threads so are easier to damage. Ford added more threads and made other changes in effort to make them more idiot proof, but some idiots are pretty special.

Properly maintained, they can go and go... I've personally seen rigs with 450K still running like new.

Transmissions: V10's and diesels used same basic trannies, 4R100 up through 2004, 5R110 after that. Some components in the diesel versions are beefed up.

 

Ugh, you mean like the 5.4 Triton plug issues? Those are ugly, been there done that. Quite pricey to fix too.

 

Any plug issues would surely have reared their ugly head long before now. Have you thought about a passenger van, may be a bit cheaper and could possibly get a newer/lower mileage unit for comparable$$, just a thought.

 

Thought about a Sprinter van but not near enough room. We need to put 4 or 5 bunks [2 high] in it plus have places to sit when not sleeping.

 

The 7.3L is a pretty indestructible engine... I think it puts ALL of them to shame when it comes to reliability. Mine's got 291,000 miles and it's never had any major problems at all! Here's what I've found though:

Diesel cost more parts-wise and fuel-wise... BUT, you generally buy both less often so you end up breaking fairly even either way. I like the diesel just because it's got more power in the lower end than any gas ever will. Because of that, I'm not screaming down the highway at 3000 to 4000RPMs under a heavy load. Also, you fuel up less often which equates to more miles between tanks. You couldn't pay me to get a V10 to say the least. Just my $ .02...

But who says a diesel stinks? Without all the emissions components, I've found I like the smell of my truck alot! The 6.4L's smell really rotten though... and I think a gas smells even worse.

 

My first thought was the indicator cable was broke, but look at the shifter... if it were in drive, it wouldn't be that far up. Something's fishy there...

 

Yeah, I am not interested in that one, it was just an example. The input is great, I sure appreciate it.

 

The 2 valve V-10 has the same issues. It's basically a 5.4L engine with 2 extra cylinders. Later engines had less issues, as the heads were cast with more room for threads.

The 3 valve engine solved the plug blowing issue. There is a minor issue with spark plugs breaking when removed, but a newer spark plug design solved this.

3 valve engines have a better transmission, the 5R110W versus the 4R100.