You know, I think I remember something about increased oil levels in regenerative emission controlled vehicles. I haven't run across any complaints of overfull engine oil to experience this first hand. Of course, I work on Internationals, not Fords, so maybe the regeneration process is a bit different due to application differences in DOC/DPF's.

Still, I don't believe an entire quart of fuel is normal within 3000 miles, especially towing, as the DPF is mostly passively regenerated by the higher heat buildup in the DOC, not the addition of fuel to make heat. Unless you idle and tow around town at 30 mph, then it's going to need more regens, obviously.

So by the time you have 5000 miles and your oil is due, granted your towing constantly, you have almost 2 quarts of fuel diluting your 5 gallons of oil. So thats 2 quarts of fuel to 20 quarts of oil, which is almost 10% fuel lubricating your engine.

Sounds normal to me...

 

Either somewhere on this site or somewhere in the owners manual there is language about the oil gain in this motor. As I recall it, the bottom line is that Ford won't take any action unless the oil level is above the full level USING THE SHORT STICK METHOD. Then it goes on to explain the short stick method which is what was said above, insert the dip stick to the point where the plastic part at the top rests on the top of the tube, don't know if that would be the same as 2 quarts but it strikes me from looking at the dip stick that it would be more than 10%.

 

My oil hasn't gone up any...If it does, I'll be looking at o-rings. Maybe if it regens at an idle, you'll "grow oil", but if the engine is turning at 1500 or so RPM's, it's going to push out through the valves as designed, straight into the exhaust. Pretty much common sense...

 

Hi all,

Its been a while since my last post but I'm back! I have a 2008 F250 FX4 6.4L PSD i just bought it about 3 months ago from a local Chevy dealer and I took it to the local Ford dealer to get its first oil change and they said it had 2 extra quarts of oil in it... I thought maybe it was the silly Chevy dealership that did it now I am thinking otherwise! maybe it was 2 quarts of diesel fuel and I haven't even put it under a load yet!

Maybe Ford figured out a new way of preventing engine sludge?!!!!

 

Bottom line on this fuel in the oil business. You have to run it and run it hot. In other words work the motor.

Putting around town and it goes in a regen, you are gonna make oil. To have a successful regen your egts really need to be up around 1K. Then you will have the shortest most successful outcome.

So if you are in town, maybe try a lower gear, use tow/haul, something to keep the rpm's up.

I don't make oil, 34K on the clock and 912 hours, No city driving for me.

 

We leave June 7th for our summer RV trip. Heading to CO first and will then be heading north following the Rockies. Should get plenty of pull time in the mountains. This surely will work the engine plenty hard. Will probably need two oil changes before we get back home again in Late Sept.

I’m guessing that about 90% of the mileage will be towing.

Will post again after each oil change.

 

I leave for CO in the middle of July, looking at a total of about 3500-4000 miles myself. Enjoy the trip.

 

senix,

Maybe we'll run into you and you can clue me in on these diesels. This is our first one so it's a real learning experience. Thanks to folks like yourself and this forum I'm leaning slow but sure. Thanks for all your input, it's appreciated.

Have a safe and enjoyable trip to CO.

 

Pretty much common sense, huh? Do you know what blow-by is? It's a consequence of the fact that nobody has yet designed an engine that has perfectly sealing piston rings. Therefore hot combustion gases force their way past the rings and get into the crankcase.

During regen the injectors are pulsed during the exhaust stroke. Since there is no compression during this stroke the fuel stays as a liquid mist. Some of this stuff clings to the cylinder wall and will make it past the piston rings on the up-stroke. This fuel finds it's way into the oil and over thousands of miles can add up to a significant amount of fuel dilution.

It's not uncommon to see 5% fuel dilution after 5,000 miles and 10% after 10,000 miles. This is why most of us use the severe service maintenance intervals regardless of operating conditions.

Pretty much common sense.

 

Crazy001,

Excellent explanation, thanks. This issue is starting to make more sense to me now. My worry level is dropping. Appreciate your input.

 

Yes, pretty much common sense. No ***** there's no compression during that exhaust phase...How else is the raw fuel supposed to get into the exhaust system? BTW, it isn't that much fuel. It's not a full strokes worth. The ECU does some amazing things, and if it was, you'd have flames shooting out of your exhaust. When someone disagrees with you, you act like you're God or something. You've done it on numerous forums. 10% dilution in 10,000 miles isn't that bad since it is DIESEL! It's DIESEL. If it were GASOLINE, I'd be concerned.

You subscribe to the paranoia and feed off of it. YOU need to learn about diesel fuel properties before flipping out about it. Haven't you ever given it a thought about why the dealerships, Navistar, let alone FORD isn't worried about it unless it's excessive?

Why don't you just come on out and tell everyone to change their oil once a week, check it 4 times a day, change the fuel filters every 2,000 miles and replace the radiators upon delivery? (ok, the radiators were crappy) EVERY extreme story I've read about a blown engine on ANY of the forums had my bull*****-meter pegged due to a lack of maintenance, or they admitted it outright. Christ, there's a guy on one of the threads that hasn't changed his fuel filters since he bought the truck 60,000+ miles ago!

 

ChargersFanInCO,

Not sure where you're coming from but for a diesel newbie like myself I found Crazy001's explanation extremely helpful.

I know you guys know your diesel stuff and that is why we newbies are on this forum to learn from your expertise.

If someone has an ax to grind, as the OP, I would appreciate it be conducted in another post, thanks.

 

Other than the part that was directed at him on a personal side, I REBUTTED his statement and you should have achieved a little clarity on the fact that it's diesel and not gasoline diluting your oil to a small, yes small extent. I'll also go on to say the reason they haven't developed an engine that doesn't have blow-by characteristics is because if they sealed the rings, (which they can't do for several reasons) no oil would be in the top of the cylinder allowing that top ring to scrape on the cylinder wall, then weld itself to the cylinder wall, one ring couldn't handle the pressures of the power stroke (not to be confused with a powerstroke engine) in a 2 or 4 stroke engine, and the cylinders are actually tapered (measure top, center, and bottom of a cylinder if you don't believe me) which closes the rings a little bit towards the top of the cylinder to reduce the amount of blow-by.

I'm done on this thread. Enjoy learning everything from Crazy001...

 

Well guys, here's where I have a bit of confusion. I had my previous diesel, a 7.3L for 9 years and 150K miles. While I'm sure there was some blow by fuel in the oil it was never enough to worry me. When the oil was changed it was at the full level on the dip stick. As it was driven it might go down a little between changes. That is the blow by I'm familar with, the oil blows by the rings and goes out the exhaust. Now I have a diesel where the dealer tells me that an oil gain due to diesel fuel getting into the oil is normal. As I said eariler my best guess by looking at the dip stick and following the short stick instructions is that over 10% gain would be a OK with Ford. Now, since I still believe there is out bound blow by happening, that is the amount of oil is being reduced through the exhaust, what do we end up with 15% diesel? I don't know but I'm sure gonna send in a sample next oil change. I also wonder if any diesel cooks out of the oil from heat. From my boating experience I can tell you that you can cook a lot of water out of oil so does the diesel fuel cook out to any extent. And then the final question is what if any impact is the diluted oil having on the moving parts of the motor. I don't have the answers to any of thoe questions but I'd sure like to. Apparantly the manufacturer is not concerned and Ford is not concerned but if they can stay off the hook for 100,000 miles they're home free. I certainly expect a lot more than 100,000 miles from a $50K diesel truck, wonder if I'll get it.

 

StanleyZ,

I do not have answers to your questions but am very interested in the response they will generate.

I'm too new to diesels to even attempt and venture a response.

Thanks for jumping in and extending this post with good questions.