This will only happen on the first start of the day and it has been cold out side every dont know if its related or not, I will wait for the WTS light to go out and turn the key and nothing just nothing its like the starter is un hooked!
The trick to getting it started is to go through the WTS light 3 to 4 times before it will crank up?????
FYI My Batt is good and all new conections on batt pluse on starter!
Any ideas?

 

I would put a test light on it first thing in the morning when it acts up to see if you are getting 12V to the small terminal at the starter relay and if it is completing the circuit across the large terminals going to the starter. That will tell you which way you need to go for further diagnosis.

Jason

 

Definitely sounds like bad wiring. You run the glow plugs 4 times and that causes a LOT of current to flow through the wiring, warming them up a little bit and improving the contacts. I would take a close look at that starter relay and make sure it has good, clean connections and wires that aren't internally corroded.

I also agree you should check for 12V behind the starter relay the first time you turn the key.

 

And check your grounds, they are the root of many an electrical problem.

 

When you say all new connections, do you mean new cables or you cleaned the existing connections?

I am going to say there is corrosion inside the passenger side battery terminal where the wires connect to the clamp.

The large draw from heating the glow plugs causes the connectors to expand resulting in a better connection.

If you would like to test this, after say two glow plug heat cycles, see if the passenger side positive battery clamp is hot.
Do that cautiously, it may be hot enough to burn your fingers.

When you have early stages of corrosion in a connector it causes heat when you try to draw a lage amount of current through the connection.
As the corrosion gets worse, it finally just stops working at all.

 

I smell what you guys are steping in! I am a Journeyman Electician and thats what I looked for I did clean every connection with a wire brush and a little Nolocks, No resistance on wires no heat like all 12v systems do nothing!! I hoped someone would say its your " ______" so now I know it is electrical or my starter has a glitch!

 

If the starter was bad, you should at least have a click from the solenoid.

Jason

 

If the corrosion is where I am talking about, the only way to see it is cut the passesnger side battery terminal open and expose the cable.

When I discovered the source of the problem when mine was acting like that at a slightly more advance stage I was amazed the engine had started for the last year or so.

Fired the truck up normally, drove a mile to a friends house.
Shut the engine off and a little later it would not start at all.

I had been having problems like you describe for about 7 or 8 months, cleaned everything I could see.
Also the lower voltage being delivered to the starter wound up costing me one of them as well, so I still had the same problem even with a new starter.

When I finally got it started and home I was at wit's end with it.

So as I looked at the battery cable system, everything ties together in the passenger side positive clamp.
So I took a 4" grinder with a cut off wheel to the positive clamp and cut it open.

On my 86, the cable to the starter is 3/0 cable.
The cable from the drivers side battery to the passenger side clamp is 2/0 cable.
The wire from the starter solenoid to the passenger side clamp was a #4 wire.

The wire from the starter solenoid is what ties the cab power, alternator and glow plug power together and gets it to the battery system at the passenger side positive battery clamp.

The crimp on the battery cable clamp was all that tied everything together.

When I could see the conductors, they were so corroded I really don't see how they were conducting any electricity at all.

The 3/0 cable down to the starter had been so hot the end of the conductor was actually melted into a copper ball.

So now the problem was found, and I also had a dead truck.
So a trip to the local auto parts store and they did have a heavy duty bolt on battery clamp.
But there was no way all those big cables would go in it.

Longer bolts did let me get all of the wires in there till I could get a new cable made.
And boy did the starter crank the engine when I got it all back together, started better than it had for years.

If you are getting enough connection for the glow plugs to work somewhat and the cab interior lights to come on you do have a connection that may show little or no resistance when the draw is low.

The glow plugs draw almost 200 amps when they heat.
The starter will draw right at 300 amps when you are cranking the engine.

When you start trying to draw that much current through a connection that is a less than perfect connection, you will have problems with voltage drop that may look like nothing with a 10 or 15 amp load and even less than that with an ohm meter on it.

Master electrician for 15 years.

 

I am going to say it is the ignition switch down on the steering column, either it has gone bad by becoming corroded or dirty, or it is out of adjustment.

 

What transmission does it have?

Manual?

If so the clutch safety switch could be out of adjustment.
By the fourth attempt to get it started you are frustrated enough to slam the pedal down hard enough for it to make connection.