i posted on a thread regarding FICM problems a week or so back about a cold start problem. i never ended up checking my FICM voltages, just took the truck to the dealer since i still have the 5y/100k warranty going for me. turns out the problem is with the high pressure oil system, a small leak coming from a "dummy plug".

i'm new to diesels in general and only had my truck about a month now. hadn't heard of this problem before (from the symptoms you might guess bad batteries, FICM, or HPOP) but i have a general understanding that the leak would cause the injectors not to fire from low oil psi. not sure how long this problem has existed on my truck. i noticed it after i got my truck back for a bedplate leak fix. i am just wondering if this kind of leak with long cranks (5 sec when cold) could have caused damage to anything on the engine if it has been a problem for a long time.

the oasis report i got prior to buying the truck showed regular maintenance with the turbo being replaced at low miles and then a glow plug replaced recently before i bought the truck. other than that the truck was "clean" as far as repairs go.

 

So your question isn't about the long crank? That was due to the small leak which I'm assuming got fixed?

Your question is if the long cranks could have caused damage to anything that will appear in the future?

You need to be a little more specific.

The only thing I can see that being hard on is the batteries and starter. Since nothing else was doing anything.

 

my truck is still at the dealer. yes obviously the batteries and starter are being worked during startup. to my knowledge when an engine is turned over all moving parts inside are being moved. crank, connecting rods, pistons, cam, lifters, valves, and bearing surfaces being worn. more specifically i am asking whether there could be any damage to the injectors. i know that <45psi is too low for fuel and can cause damage, just wondering if oil pressure plays a part here too. the injectors won't fire is oil psi is too low so i am thinking no.

 

ANY cold start on an engine is hard to a certain extent. 5 seconds isn't that long. Your engine has a low pressure lubrication pump for bearings, etc. The low pressure pump also supplies oil to the high pressure oil pump that fires the injectors. IIRC the PCM has to see a minimum pressure on the high pressure oil side before it will command the injectors to fire. You aren't going to damage the injectors by not having enough HPO to fire them. They don't move in a mechanical manner like the crank, cam, etc when they fire, and it's not like you are out of oil running something metal to metal.

 

thanks for the reply. very reassuring. i'm still learning the ins and outs of this motor so i'm not quite up to speed.hopefully my truck is done tomorrow.

 

It might actually be better for your engine to crank over for 5 seconds or so since the engine oil pump is working to lube all of the engine parts at a lower RPM than they are at idle.
If my Cummins sits for long periods of time when I go to start it I disconnect the IP "trigger" wire so I can crank the motor over a little to get the oil flowing before it actually starts.
If I don't it fires on just a bump of the starter and is running before the oil gets circulating much at all.

 

yeah i know what you mean. used to do something similar on my previous truck (f150) after oil change (probably not necessary but i did it anyways). if you hold pedal to the floor with some ford models and then start cranking, the engine will only turn over. thanks again for the replies

 

ok so i got my truck back on monday night. honestly it seems to be running more smoothly than it was, but then again i've been using my dad's 7.3 the last week so maybe i'm just comparing it to that. the thing is, i am still having a long crank when the engine is cold. this evening when leaving work at outside temp of 49F, i had at least a 5 sec crank. when turning over the engine it sort of lugged down after a few seconds and then finally started. i thought it wasn't going to start for a split second.

i am new to owning a diesel, and the 6.0 is totally different from the 7.3 which is the only other diesel engine i am somewhat familiar with. my dad's 7.3 starts, under similar conditions, within 1-2 sec crank. am i wrong or should my 6.0 start more easily than it has been?

below is the report from my most recent repair"

62703 dummy plugs, stand pipes, and block and fitting leaking, perform 6.0L diag sheet found codes p2290, p2291, and p2285. perform TSB 09-22-16. air up h/p oil system found air leaks under 2 valve covers, drain degas bottle, remove FICM, left valve cover, replace stand pipe and dummy plug, reinstall valve cover, FICM, degas bottle. remove intercooler tube, right valve cover, recheck for leaks. replace stand pipe, dummy plug. retest for leaks. none found reinstall right valve covers, elect. looms, intercooler tube, refill cooling system. road test 12 miles. let stand 20 min. long start recheck for codes p2290, recheck PIDS found long to build ICP pressure, remove ICP sensor retest for air leaks, found air leaking at block and fitting, remove turbo, exh. system intercooler tubers, exh. system remove h/p pump cover, retest for leaks, found fitting leaking, remove pump assy. replace stc fitting, reinstall pump, cover, reinstall turbbu. exh. syste, elect. looms, intercooler tubes, clear all codes, run engine steam clean engine, road test 10 miles, recheck after 20 min, no codes good restart.

sorry for the long-winded post. i wanted to put the info out there in case someone is having or has seen a similar problem. again, who knows maybe i am just not familiar enough with this engine to know what is 'normal' yet.

 

Since you just got it back from having the whole HPO system open give it a day or two or three to work ALL the air out of the system. Even having it run up and down the highway it sometimes takes a bit to get it worked out. If after that it still has a long crank to start then return it to the tech. Sounds like he did a fairly good job of diagnostics and repair, but it's possible that he did cut an o-ring installing the STC and it may take a bit to show up. Rare, but it does happen. Also, have you had the batteries load tested?? Simple things do happen and that might be another part of the problem. Remember that they must be tested separately so take an 8mm wrench to disconnect the passenger side cable to save time.

 

I'm with npccpartsman, give it a few days before you start to worry. It will take some time for any air to work it's way out of the system and for your truck to re-learn itself since the batteries were disconnected.

As for the long crank, the low pressure oil pump is providing the lubrication so you are fine. I'm not sure about your 6.0L, but my truck won't start firing injectors until the HPO reaches 500#, which is why the PSD start is sometimes referred to as a "bark" because the truck start turning over without any fuel and then the injectors suddenly start shooting go juice.

I recently had a similar problem. Turned out to be one of my plugs on my HPOP was leaking a lot making it harder to build pressure. Now that I fixed it, the start is still longer than I remember it being in the past. I have newer batteries and they are fine (as well as the charging system). If your problem persists (and your alternator is working fine) then I would check the batteries. You can still show 12VDC, but if you have a bad cell it will not have the cycling capability to adequately turn the starter (the batteries are also supplying the electronics and glow plugs at this time too). Another thing to check is your electrical connections. Make sure they are clean and making good contact as well as your ground that goes from the truck to the batteries. Lastly, your starter could be getting tired.

Just some thoughts to chew on.

Hopefully your truck rights itself in the next couple of days.

 

thank you both for the replies. i will take your advice and give it some time for the HPO system to gets where it needs to be.

i have had concerns about the batteries, since after a few seconds of cold cranking there is a lugging sound similar to when a weak battery is cranking an engine over. the bats are 2-3 years old according to my OASIS report. they've checked ok at the dealer twice now. i had a local battery shop test the bats individually a couple weeks ago and they were ok. i think what i am going to do is replace the batteries and see if this helps things out. if not then i will just start using starting fluid in the morning.....


just kidding about that last line

thanks again for the help

 

Be sure you climb up on the bumper so you can spray it into the back of your throttle body...

 

yeah ok, how many cans should i use per start??

seriously though, had batteries checked again and still ok. the dude at the battery shop talked me into charging my bats tonight so i'm on that as we speak. thing is alternator may not be working very well. after a few minutes of engine on time, bats were only reading 13.38 volts. too low according to the dude at the battery shop. i think its supposed to be up around 14v. i'll look it up when i get a few mins.

good news though: truck seems to be starting better. so even though my alt may be going south, i still have the 6-0 grin.

 

He should be able to test your alternator when he checks the batteries. I know what my alternator will put out when it has to, but mine doesn't charge 14v all the time. Normal is, and always has been about what yours is. When mine needs to it will ping 14.1 or 14.2---that's usually after cold start and glow plugs were cranking. A lot of folks don't realize that the alt. is set to start charging only after the glow plugs turn off. Keeps from burning out glow plugs that way. One other thing to try........If you have a block heater then plug it up and see if it starts better. Not sure where you are and if it's still "chilly" at night.

 

i went back to the battery shop this morning with bats at about 90% according to the hydrometer that was loaned to me. both batteries read ~12.7v. truck started very easily (it was about 70f though). battery shop tested alt again and it was putting out 13.75 at idle. as the guy explained to me yesterday, if the bats are not fully charged the alternator will not work properly.

i will plug in the block heater tonight as a test, getting up early tomorrow to go out of town so it should be around 50f.

its funny that you mention the alt not charging upon starting the truck. the first battery shop i went to told me the alt was working intermittently, as they had tested the alt upon startup and it wasn't putting out. i knew it didn't charge at this time, but was not aware the reason was to save the gp's. thanks for the info.

so as a recap i am pretty sure i have a good understanding of what was causing my cold start problems. first off, the HPO leak was not doing me any good. fixing helped, but residual air needed to be purged. something i overlooked was fully charging the bats. my assumption is that when i bought the truck, the bats were not fully charged, and the alt would not get them up to snuff since they were too low. this combined with the HPO leak - bad deal.

thanks to you all for your advice and support. it is a huge relief to turn the key and not have to cross my fingers.