I don't want to pick a fight, just start one, lol.
My 54 has a 500 ci caddy in it, with a th400 trans. Lots of torque, but revs slow. It sounds great, but gets 10 miles to the gallon. I'm toying with the idea of an engine/trans swap. I'm a die hard Chevy guy (but I love this truck) and I have a sbc sitting on the engine stand. I've put sbc's in every thing from a 28 ford highboy to a 41 pontiac coupe, but it just doesn't feel right. So I'm looking for suggestions. I don't know chit about ford motors.
Any years, sizes, models I should stay away from? Preferred automatic overdrive tranny? Older carbureted or newer FI?
I need some schoolin.

 

well if you want fuel milage go for a fuel injected 5.0 or 4.6. it would be different and get milage. the 4.6 has pretty good power to.

 

Well I am a big fan of use "what you got"........ but for Ford, in my opinion, a 302 or a 351W is the way to go, just because of the aftermarket support...I am running a 75 351W with an edlebrock intake and carb attached to a C6, not pushing it but I think it is a nice setup, a 302/5.0L from a mustang/cougar/ltd is also nice, EFI, roller cam,etc etc as for auto AOD has the overdrive, C6,C4 and FMX do not..... either is a fairly easy swap....then again your sbc is just being wasted on the engine stand and the th400 should bolt up to it.......... but then again I am into rodding which some people here frown on

 

Just decent mileage, 16 - 18.
Power to still be a work truck, maybe 250/275 hp.

Currently running a 9 in ford rear end with 276 gears. probably contributes to the sluggishness. Thinking a small block with OD tranny and upping the gears to 370.

 

well im not sure on the hp rating of the 5.0 but i believe the 4.6 is close to 300. and either one when driven right in a light truck like your should do good on gas.

 

2.76 gears? Yeah that be way slow.

Before you swap the gears figure out what transmission you want as it can effect it quite a bit. In my Mustang if I use a manual toploader I get the same result with 3.25 gears as guys with automatic transmissions get with 4.11. There is a site somewhere out there that helps to figure all this out, tire size matters too.


My personal favorite is the 351w, though the 302 is a great engine too. There are three different engines Ford makes with 351ci, the Windsor, the Cleveland and Modified. I like the windsor best because of it's size and weight (it's basicly a stroked out 302 from what I've been told). Lots and lots of power potiential and parts are a lot more abundent than they where in the 70s for them.

If you want better gas milage, most engines with EFI would be the way to go. The 5.0 is a pretty decent engine but in my '89 Bronco there have been a few times I wish it had a larger engine. There are a couple different 4.6s from what I've seen. The 2v,3v,4v all have different outputs, but all can make pretty decent power. Actually if you want to go insain with it, put in a Mustang Cobra engine, espically the DOHC 4v, couple slight changes and they get 700hp real easy.

 

OK, here's a quick tutorial on Ford small blocks.

Early 70's 351 heads have larger intake ports than any other Windsor-type small block head. If you can't find some of those, the next best would be 87-95 302 heads from a Mustang. Those were the latest designs from the factory, and the ones that made the most HP. Keep in mind though, that if you don't own a machine shop, it costs as much to rebuild old heads as it does to just buy new aftermarket, which will be far superior in the power making department.

351 heads can be used on 302 blocks, but the head bolt size is different, 7/16 on 302, 1/2 on 351, so you need to use special shouldered head bolts. They're readily available.

Something you might notice if you really tear into building one from scratch is that Ford small block bottom ends are beefier than Chevys, so having 4 bolt mains isn't necessary, or a big deal unless you start pushing the stratosphere with HP or RPMs.

Keep in mind that no small block will heave the kind of torque you're used to with the 500 cad engine, so be ready for that. You are correct that your high rear gear is killing your off-the-line launch. Swap to 3.25 with non overdrive or 3.70 with AOD and you'll love that.

Speaking of AOD, late 80's versions are the best. By the early-mid 90's, they were electronic. Not bad trannies, but not so user friendly without a computer.

With a 302 and AOD trans, you should be able to double your gas mileage, unless you go crazy with hop-up engine mods. Even easier if you go all out and run EFI. You can make more HP with EFI over carb with the same MPG, if you know what you're doing and match your parts correctly.

 

Doug51 reported that he averages 25 mpg with a 302/c4 combo with a 9 inch rear with 3.00 gearing. I am actually going to go with a 302/AOD combo

 

Ford's AOD that they stuck in the Mustangs are junk. I am a Mustang guy and have owned plenty of Mustangs, so I have earned the right to call those stock AODs junk. They are all right if you plan on using a stock 302.
However enough Mustang guys out there have torn apart these transmissions and built them up to handle some impressive power. If your dropping an AOD in your ride, take the time and add a few parts to increase the reliability in the event you decide to some bolt on some performance pieces to your engine.

5th post down
http://www.tcstangs.com/forum/showth...tranny+rebuild

 

Even though this is America, with the freedom of speech, and all, let's at least be fair when calling something junk. Especially when you say right after they're junk, that they're fine if you're running stock. Please keep in mind what the AOD was built for; stock. Like many things, if you're going to overwork the design, you will very quickly find the weak link. If you turn your stock 5.0 regularly to 9 grand, pretty soon, the bottom is going to drop out. That is, if you don't drop a valve first. But to be able to do that, you have to make some modifications and replace a few things with pieces designed to live in that high rpm environment. The transmission is no different. Any transmission, not just the AOD. Same with U-joints or rear ends. I think you get the picture.

So, match your parts, build everything for the purpose intended, and you won't have any problems with "junk."

 

My first engine was a stone stock 77 302 w/a c4 combo, 3.00 rear gear in a nine inch. Was a good combo, I would recommend a taller gear 3.25 or 3.50.

 

why not swap out the th400 with a 700r or 200r and 3.75 gears? I don;t know if that will fix your mpg issue but it shouldn't be sluggish anymore. Most can live with one or the other. "ya it's slow but, I really poor mileage"

 

Yeah, the low gearing and a overdrive transmission combo I was told is like "having your cake and eating it too". Plus if you changed the gears to something lower, your gas mileage should improve in the city some. I'm actually drawn to using my stock rear axle cause it has 3.92 gearing and with the AOD I should still get good gas mileage plus have great take off

 

....are ya thinkin' maybe just a swap....or buildin' "something?......

...I'm with with sparky....if ya got already it...wind it up!

Although...I AM a beliver of the Ford-in-a-Ford school of thought...



Be that as it may...I got 2 flat tappet SBF motors now...and if ONE more
of my "friends" here in MI tells me to go find a roller motor there is gonna
be he!! to pay around my place......

Just got this email a couple days ago...NOT trying to promote another site
so please go easy folks...just food for thought.....check it out.....

Builders Notebook: 460 hp, 18mpg, 331 cid
Big Joe built this one....

Builders Notebook: 460 hp, 18mpg, 331 cid - FordMuscle.com Forums

Shame when racers & rodders are SERIOUSLY concerned with MPG's...

I'm still torn between the 331 & 347....the Probe pistons used in this build
are very similar to mine...only difference is the pin size so I can can still
go either way with my build....gonna come down to a coin flip I guess....

I'm waitin' until everything else in finished to build my motor...just makes sence to me...

-

 

This is helping some, but I'm still a ford neophyte. To clarify. I'm not looking for big HP, but I use the truck to a haul loads and pull a car trailer , 4000 lbs total load max on the trailer. mid 80's stock 350's are around 220 - 250 hp. 700r4 trannys are about .72 - 1 OD, so a 375 rear end is around 270 final drive in OD. This is a middle of the road setup. Empty the acceleration is brisk, loaded, it is adequate. combined mileage around 16/17. Highway in OD at 70, maybe 18/19. Pulling a trailer, no OD, 13/14.

I'm looking for the ford equivalent. On a budget of course.
My only fords (in 40 years) was a 6 cyl explorer that I feel was too weak for this truck. And an older Bronco with a 351w that sucked gas.

Can someone fill in the blanks for me? What's the HP and torque figures for a 302? What engine/tranny do they use in F100's and Expeditions? towing capacity/mileage?

BTW, I didn't know they made a 351 small block. Thought they were Big Blocks?