Hey guys! New to the forum, however not new to trucks or offroading (if you consider jeeps "trucks"!) <br><br>Anyways, I recently picked up a '77 F250 that needed a good bit of work. I rebuilt the rear brakes, and am currently working on the fuel system (running off a jerry can in the bed at the moment!). <br><br>Anyways, when I do drive, the truck wanders horribly! There's probably an eighth-turn of play in the steering wheel at 15-20mph. Needless to say I'm a little too scared to drive it any faster than that right now!<br><br> Specs on the truck: (to help assist the diagnosis)<br><br> 77 F250 - Serial ends in Y60090 (I know they changed sometime mid-year...)<br><br> 460/c6/205 <br><br>4x4 = Dana 44 Front/60<br><br>Power steering <br><br>It has a weird system I've never seen before - It has a pitman arm, but rather than having a drag link (like an inverted T setup), the pitman arm is perpendicular to the frame rail and connects to another arm on top of the knuckle with a long link. (pictures tomorrow?) Anyone know where the huge slop is coming from? I can check the toe-in tomorrow, but I doubt that's causing that big of a problem! Do you think that one of the rod ends could be that badly worn? If it's not a rod end, where should I start looking?<br><br>~Brad<br><br>EDIT: It looks like the setup listed in the LMC catalog on page 106 - "Steering Control 78-79 4wd"

 

Welcome to the site.

This steering system you speak of sounds like a power assist steering system, and while effective often leaves room for improvement.
For your slop issues, you will have to look to see what is loose. It could be any of the joints in the steering shaft. You have two, one is a universal type joint attached to the steering column, and the other is a funny looking slip type joint mounted directly to the steering box. These tend to wear over the years, and cause some of these symptoms.
Once you are satisfied that all is well, you can move to the steering box. Turn the input shaft and look to see of the pitman arm moves without any slop.
Move on to the drag link. These have some ends that tend to wear quite a bit.
Keep working your way down until you get to the axle, and other steering components.
Then decide if replacing or upgrading is in order.
Many steering threads on this site. You will find days of reading.

 

Well, I was pretty sure it was something complicated. Should've put the front end up in the air before I posted

The "center link" that connects the pitman arm to the driver's side knuckle has a joint that's just flopping back and forth (it may have reamed out the pitman arm too!). Worst part is, the "stud" that goes through the arm (that the jam nut goes on) is spinning with the nut so I get to try to find a way to get that off too!

Sorry for being a stupid .

With my Serial number, is there a chance I've got a 78-style power steering setup on my car? I have the FSM for the 77's and don't see *anything* like it anywhere in the book.

~Brad

 

I forget the cuttoff for the split year. It is possible that you do have the later integrated power steering set up and that all you have to replace is the drag link that connects the pitman arm to the driver side steering knuckle.
DO you have a hydraulic ram or cylinder attached to the tie rod?
Does this drag link between the steering box and the steering arm have four hydraulic hoses connected to it?

If no, to either and you do have a power steering pump, then it is safe to assume that you have the more desirable integrated power steering system.
replacement parts are easy to find, and your steering problems can easilly be repaired.

 

I thought I replied, but it seems to be missing!

Anyways, there are no hydraulic hoses going to the drag link or the tie rod - there are only two lines that go from the pump to the steering box (and back).

I assume I do have the 78-79 style integrated steering, which is kinda neat (for a 77!). I ordered the replacement drag link online, so will be getting it together sometime early next week.

Thanks again for helping me identify it...according to the VIN plate, this truck was originally a 400M/435/205, that got 460/c6/205 swapped, and I have no clue what other little "mysteries" or oddball parts it might have on it.

~Brad

 

Y20,000 was the last F250 4x4 "highboy" w/power assist steering, you have a 77.5 "lowboy" w/integral power steering.

 

I can't find out where to begin a new thread!!!!.but my problem here is mostly on the same thing. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I have two of these,,,stupid boxs, one on a stock 77 ford, which drives the truck where ever it feels like taking it And the other is all new everything even the box, and all related parts. But it is in a 1950 mercury full kustom, an award winner till you have to drive it. I have tightened down the center adj; on top til it won't go any tighter. And it still wants to drift around...my wife sez it feels like were on a cloud flaoting around. Now i have replaced this box in the merc , but never in my dads old 77.I am tempted too install rack and pinion, but this steering shouldn't do this should it?????? Throwin more money at it ain't my cup of tea and certainly not the correct thing to do. HELP!!! BOB S
PS I would even pay to get the RIGHT ANSWER .And i will know when i discover it.

 

I would seriously start with checking ALL of the ball/socket type joints (tie rod ends, drag link ends, etc). Depending on when in the model year your 77 was built, it can have one of several different style setups.

However - in my case, I replaced the drag link on the truck because the forward joint was so loose it was WOBBLING in the pitman arm. You can do a quick & easy visual inspection on the steering components - get someone to sit in the truck and turn the wheel back & forth (not all the way - just a half turn each way back & forth). At that point, have the hood open and make sure the steering shaft isn't loose at the U-joint where it connects to the steering box. If that's ok, then move to the front of the car and trace the linkages. You should see each linkage move - where one linkage moves but the bits it's connected to don't, there's your problem

For mine, it turns out the new drag link didn't fix it either - I had to shim the castle-nut side of the joint with two washers so that it would pull the cone of the fitting up tight onto the pitman arm.

~Brad

 

Thanks Brad!Iwas mentioning these problems to my friend who works on these old trucks, come to find out, he found that the rag joint was clear gone ..other than a few pieces left, Now the truck is doing tons better.I also was sharing with him about my 5o mercury, he seems to think[every part is new] that the king pin angle could be wrong , Same basic front suspension as my 77.The king pins may be need to be tipped ,forward at the top, [castor] if they are tipped back they will try to seek they'er own way to go therefore [wandering} i don't know but will have it checked thank you brad bob s

 

Usually in a car you want more degrees of caster, not less. The more the kingpin angles are tipped backwards, the more the car will try to automatically straighten itself out (why new cars will straighten out if you let go of the wheel around a corner). If you take away the caster angle on the front wheels (set it to 0*) then the car will wander like you're describing.

It would be my first instinct to try to add caster (i.e. make the kingpins less vertical and more tipped backwards!) I'd have the front alignment checked (including caster angle) and see how it compares with factory specifications, and work from there.

However, if you're holding the wheels straight and it's still wandering, I'd start by doing the same visual inspection on the car as you did on the truck! Sometimes, even new parts might not seat right, and allow some wobble which can make it feel very floaty.

You also might want to loosen up the steering box on the truck now that you've got the joint replaced. I'm not sure, but I seem to remember that if you have a box over tightened, it can seize up or malfunction! Since you've already replaced one joint, I'd check all the others in the system too for wear/play - I've noticed that when one tie rod goes, the other isn't far behind!

Good to hear the truck is better though

~Brad

 

HEY morning Brad! Yes you stated that right..more castor rather than less.As far as factory specs[on the merc] You are right again. I will find someone who has a [MERCURY] and see what the angle should be. I AM RELIEVING THE BOx TODAY OF THAT SCREW ADJ;I made.
In the begining a few years ago, i can remember fellas told me ;because that particular shat length in this box , would give when being turned either way, there by causing "wander" does that ring any bells with you Brad?????????? Bob s

 

Welcome to FTE

1977 F250 4WD's from serial number Y20,001 are not High Boys, have the same Ford integral P/S used on 1978/79 F250 4WD's.

The 460 engine is not original. Ford did not offer a 460 with 4WD until 1983.

Since the engine has been swapped, what else has?

 

THE BIGGEST SHARE ON MY STEERING IN MY 77, WAS THAT RAG JOINT DESTROYED FROM AGE.thers still a bit of wander but not enuff to worry ome, as it sets under my carport 11 an1/2 months out of a year. bob s

 

Thanks for the welcome!

Right, the question of "what else has been swapped" is basically what I was asking

The VIN Tag says it should be a 400/NP435/NP205 4x4. It's got a 460, C6, and NP205. Looks like they kept the original 78-79 integral power steering. I don't know what mounts/etc they used when the previous owner installed the motor, but he notched the frame to clear a stock exhaust manifold for the 460.

Eventually I'd like to buy the towers/mounts to get the motor centered and "straight" in the engine compartment, if they exist. Do I just use stock 460 mounts & brackets from a 73-79 2wd 460? Any insight appreciated!

It also should have AC, which it doesn't, and the blower motor doesn't work!

I'm going through and basically rebuilding it bit by bit - brakes first, now I'm working on doing the bed, frame & fuel system (wood flatbed, the OE bed was rusted to hell, looks like it was left full of mulch for a few years), next will be minor motor mods (Heads/Cam/Intake/Exhaust). I suppose I'll discover all the little "fun things" that have been messed up during the swap!


To Bob:
A little bit of play in the steering wheel is normal per the Ford Factory manual. I forget if they measure it in "degrees" or by how much of a "dead zone" the wheel should have, but if you put a little piece of tape on the top of the wheel, you shouldn't have more than about 1" of movement side to side before the steering reacts. If you do, definitely check the remaining joints in the system. If *none* of them have any slop, then it might be time to replace or adjust the steering box. It's important to make sure all the joints are good before messing with the box!

~Brad