Could I get somebody to give me a quick run down on the application differences of flywheels available for 302's?

I'm putting a '70's 302 together with a late 80's T5 and need to know about the differences between 157 and 164 tooth flywheels.

I have a 164 - will it work with a T5 bell housing? Also I have an 11" clutch sitting on the shelf. Any idea if this combo will work together or should I be heading a different direction?


Thanks for any ideas.

 

The 157 tooth flexplates are for the old transmissions, e.g. the C4. The 164 tooth are for the later models, like the AOD. It changed over in 1981 when they switched the balance weight on the 302 from 28.2 oz. to 50 oz. I put a late model enigne in my '77 F100, and had one heck of a time finding a flexplate with a 50 oz. balance wieght on it that would fit in the smaller 157 tooth bellhousing, because all the ones with the 157 tooth 'plate had the early balance weight on them. I ended up having to order one from B&M for about $100. Make sure you get the balance weight correct, that 1970's 302 uses the 28.2 balance weight, don't use one with the 50, or your engine won't live very long or be smooth at all. I imagine the T5 is a fairly new transmission, so I assume that it will need the 164 tooth, otherwise the starter won't be able to engage it. You might want to check the Summit Racing catalogue, and give them a call, because it sounds to me like you're gonna need a 28.2 balance weight on a 164 tooth flywheel, so you're gonna have to order a custom part, because you're putting an early engine on a late transmission. Don't know much about your clutch, I'm an automatic guy. TK

Just for the record:
automatics use flexplates
manuals use flywheels

 

Hey Tim, I also went thru the discussions about 157 and 164.

TorqueKing, not sure to understand. I have two C4s. One (No.1)on which the bellhousing is mounted using the same bolts as the pump and one (No.2) which has separate bolts. I also have the two bellhousings. I have a 28oz 164 tooth flexplate which I will be using and it fits both bellhousing. I have the No.1 tranny test fitted to my 289 and mounted in my truck. I have the flexplate as well as the starter mounted, but currently no torque converter installed. I did all this to mockup my engine/tranny in order to make my engine and tranny x-member.

Do you see something wrong with this as you say the 164 is just for AOD. I heard different. Please enlighten me / us. Thanx.

 

Hey Tim, I also went thru the discussions about 157 and 164.

TorqueKing, not sure to understand. I have two C4s. One (No.1)on which the bellhousing is mounted using the same bolts as the pump and one (No.2) which has separate bolts. I also have the two bellhousings. I have a 28oz 164 tooth flexplate which I will be using and it fits both bellhousing. I have the No.1 tranny test fitted to my 289 and mounted in my truck. I have the flexplate as well as the starter mounted, but currently no torque converter installed. I did all this to mockup my engine/tranny in order to make my engine and tranny x-member.

Do you see something wrong with this as you say the 164 is just for AOD. I heard different. Please enlighten me / us. Thanx.

 

I'm trying to piece my knowledge together here from what I've learned, which is always dealing with automatics. When you said that you have two different bellhousings for the C4, I'm assuming that they must have made a larger bellhousing for the 50 oz. motors, because the 164 tooth is about 1" larger in diameter as the 157 tooth, and the 164 tooth will not fit in an early transmission, I tried, it won't fit. I'd be willing to bet that both of your C4's are from the era of 1981-1986, which must be the C4 that used the larger of the two flexplates. I'll bet that 164 tooth with a 28 ounce weight on it came from a vehicle that had a 351 Windsor and a late model transmission, because they have always been 28 ounce, they didn't change over in 1981 like the 302 Windsors. Did you say that even the 157 tooth flywheel in the larger bellhousing would engage the starter? Doesn't seem to make sense to me, since they are different sizes, and there's only one place to mount the starter. I used the AOD as an example of a transmission that uses a 164 tooth plate, I wasn't aware that some C4's used those too. It seems to me that they would have changed over in 1981 to the larger bellhousing, but I can't confirm this. If you have the 164 tooth plate with a 28 ounce weight on it, then that should be all you need, I had just forgotten that you could find one from a boneyard, since the 351 W's have always had 28 ounce weights. There are 2 different bolt patterns for torque converters on a C4: the 10.5" bolt circle, and the 11 7/16" bolt circle. You can tell by measuring the distance between the opposite bolt holes on the flexplate, and that's the bolt pattern you'll need to order or find a torque converter to fit.

 

Can I suggest looking for a bell housing to accept your T5 using the parts you already have; flywheel and clutch. My stroker is a 79 351W with 164 flywheel, 11" clutch, 4 spd toploader (64 Fairlane) and early Mustang SB bellhousing. My only problem was finding a starter to fit because of the Hooker super comp headers but I found a great deal on mini-starter for the 164 application I have in Texas. I believe Lakewood makes a SB Ford bellhousing with a dual pattern mount. Also one area to pay special attention to is getting your clutch linkage from engine to frame to line in your application if going with manual.

 

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the input.

Stroker, I guess I'd better 'fess up. I have a 73 302, a 164 flywheel, 11" clutch and what I'll guess is an 85 T5 tranny.

I'm only missing the bell housing and wondered if there was anything to watch out for in matching all this together. It doesn't sound like I'll have too many problems if a 164 flywheel will fit.

This is going into an '82 Mustang to replace a 2.3 non-turbo, 5spd manual setup.

 

Torqueking, ... thanx for your reply.

I do not have a 157, just a 164. I have no idea where the 164 came off, but I am sure it is a 28oz. I also do not know where the two C4 transmissions originally came from. Right now I have one tranny in the truck. However, as soon as I have all that out again I will take some more measurements on everything I have and also take a couple of digital photos. Then I will start a new thread right here and hope you have time to take a look at it again. Thanx again.

 

I've gathered up a bit more info -

The mid-80's thru mid 90's T5 bellhousing needs a 157 tooth flywheel that measures 13.25" This bell opening is only 13.75" across the opening.

The 164 flywheel measures 14.25" in diameter.

So I'm looking for a 157 tooth with 28 oz imbalance to go with a later T5 housing - it sounds like they exist or can be custom made. Or a T5 housing that fits the 14.25" wheel and I have yet to find one.

Thanks for all the imput.

 

Ford Racing has a 157 tooth 28 oz steel flywheel for pre-1981 302's and 351w's part #M-6375-A302.164 tooth flexplates were used before 1981 as I had one in my 1978 Zephyr.Here is a list of C-4 bellhousing applications if anyone is interested http://mmerlinn.tripod.com/trans/fdc4f/fd6c4bhm.htm

 

So let me get this straight, I am doing the opposite, I am going with an 87 5.0 with 73 trans in 66 Bronco. I think I need a 164 tooth 50 oz. flywheel. Please inform me if I am right or wrong.
Mike
66 Bronco soon to be 5.0 3 speed
00 F150 Supercab 4.2 5 speed

 

Hey I got one for you guys, have you heard of the weight coming off the flexplate and knockinga hole in the C6 bellhousing? I Belive this is what happend to mine, Should I try to fix it or get another one? (the motor's not running yet so I don't know for sure, can you see the weight from the inspection plate?

Thanks!

 

Broncoman,

your '87 motor most definately needs the 50 ounce balance weight, I don't know much about manual flywheels, that because obvious after mflat's posts pretty much went against everything I would have guessed. Just get a set of 4.10's and an AOD, that way you can have your earth-shaking torque, and keep your highway cruising ability!

Ryan,

You can see the balance weight through the inspection cover. It shoudn't come off though, it's arc-welded on there. I guess you can re-weld it if it did come off, but I've never heard of that happening.

 

TorqueKing,
I actually have the AOD that came with my 87 5.0, even with the factory Cougar floor shifter, and I just swapped out my 66 axles (Dana 30, small bearing 9") for a rebuilt 74 set with a Dana 44 and Big bearing 9" posi with 3.54 and 3.50 gears respectively. I also had the 3 speed already. I did think about going AOD, but I had a hard time with the $650 adapter, different driveshaft lengths, and custom crossmember. (I also have brand new driveshafts). Thanks any way.

Mike
66 Bronco
00 F150 Supercab 4.2 5 speed

 

Fergusson,
Thanks for the info on the Ford racing flywheels - that is an option I may have to take if I can't come up with something at the local boneyard.

Mike,
I'd say you're right on the need for a 164/50 oz behind the 87 5.0

and Torque King,
I'm not sure you're wrong - Ford has done some strange things to keep production costs down. In fact I think you're right as far as auto's and flexplates go.

I'm just finding other info when it comes to manual trannys. I just had two different guys with T5 bellhousings on ebay measure the inside diameter and that's where I got the 13.75".

The 164/28 oz flywheel I have has a date code prefix of C5 so I'm guessing it came off a 289/302, but since they used it for so long it might also be 351w.
Interesting stuff!